Mumsnet campaign on VAWG includes men in their definition of women

[Luno]

I'm not sure if/how I can link to it but under Mumsnet campaigns Women in data have published a survey about violence against women and girls.

It talks about "ALL women", asks for sex assigned at birth and says you can answer on the basis of your "gender identity".

How can any organisation purported to be for the benefit of women include men in their definition of women? All of the data will be inaccurate, unscientific and u representative.

You select gender on a page, then you select your sex.

Only after that does it say to answer survey questions about your experiences as the gender identity you have..

Its not saying answer the sex question with a gender answer.

If you don’t want to fill out the survey that is fine, but I do not understand why the distrust.

Hmm “assigned at birth” is not incredibly offensive to most women.
I personally think it’s quibbling over semantics. Who really gives a shit whether sex was observed or assigned or recorded or divined at birth it’s just different words that describe how a midwife has a look at a baby and writes down their sex at birth.

No-one is assigned a sex at birth - this isn't the Hogwarts sorting hat. I don't trust this survey to separate the lived experiences of actual human women from those of the men taking part because the survey is a)poorly structured, b)is written with a gender, rather than sex-based focus, and c)does not show how the results will be filtered to separate the experiences of women participating from those of the men.

Who really gives a shit

I give a shit. It's not semantics, it's biological fact that no-one is assigned a sex at birth, just as no-one is assigned a colour at birth. Let's not normalise something that's factually incorrect.

The Hogwarts sorting hat sorts, it doesn’t assign a biological sex category to a human baby.

a) it’s not that bad
b) it’s not gender focussed unless you are taking umbrage on the gender question being asked before the sex question
c) it’s obvious how they will be able to slice and dice/filter the data, I don’t think it really needs explaining.

It is semantics. There is nothing factually incorrect about it. It’s already been normalised and accepted by the majority of people.

No it hasn't

I don't have a gender identity so I can't progress past the question asking me to select one.

Maybe Dawn Butler had a hand

x.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783064841654276?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

Only the few signed up to gender ideology accept that sex is "assigned" at birth.

How does the assignment take place GuanYin, are there quotas?

Assigns...sorts....potato, potahto. No-one is assigned their sex at birth - or did you miss that biology lesson? It was the one before the lesson that explained that your colour isn't assigned at birth either.

Yes, it's that bad.
Yes, it's focussed on gender,
It's not obvious at all - they haven't stated how they will sort the data. Never assume.

Really? Can you link to the evidence that shows this widespread acceptance?

I take offence to it, as do many other people as it is adherence to an ideology that I think is nonsense and harmful.
This stuff was never mentioned up until 5 minutes ago, and it nothing to do with semantics - it is placating the gender ideologists. This is not about giving benefit to women. Which is a bit galling on a site mostly populated by women, in a survey supposed to be about violence against women.

Your insistence that it's just semantics is the drip drip of an ideology that tell us to ignore our instincts and just move over a bit, just call something what it's not, just pretend a bit more, sure whats the harm...and on and on it goes.

Medical texts from the past 80 years show that it has.

Citations, please.

In the context of the general population, not DSDs

TRAs must have infiltrated.

I take it you’ve never looked at old birth certificates or read any old medical texts then. The process has been referred to as sex assigned at birth since at least the 1930s.

Who is doing these surveys on 'most women' and 'most lesbians'? Has anyone here ever been asked?

This lazy 'most cats prefer' bullshit needs to stop or be backed up with actual evidence. It's becoming another version of 'you wouldn't know them, they go to another school'.

I rather think it’s a case that you were not aware of it until 5 minutes ago and have bought into the narrative that “sex assigned at birth” was invented by transgender people. It wasn’t. Yes, they’ve mis-used to argue (unsuccessfully) that this phrase means sex is a social construct. But that’s it. The phrase itself long predates this. My insistence it is just semantics is based in history and reality. It’s got nothing to do with ideology.

Here's a quick exercise for you to test your assertion. Go to Medline (or PubMed, your choice), search "assigned female at birth", limit to 1950-2000. Compare the same phrase to 2000-2023. Let us know how you get on.

It is literally everywhere. I don’t see a need to post links to the NHS, Wiki, NICE, for the U.K. and other similar sources for other countries.

If it is as you say, some new proposed way of referring to the process where a midwife checks a baby and records their sex- where is your evidence that this process has been called something completely different for decades? Where is your evidence that is new and hardly anyone has used it?

Those are studies, not medical texts describing procedures.

Well it doesn't feel like semantics to the rest of us, and surely a survey should be as clear as possible to appeal to the respondents. If the vast majority of potential respondents disagree with the meaning of terms in the survey, you've got a problem.

Assigned at birth is nonsense, sex is observed long before the birth in many cases.

'It is literally everywhere' - You really don't think words have any meaning at all do you? just whatever you want them to mean in the moment.

And nice way to deflect and not actually produce the evidence asked for.