Feminists want trans women to show passports at public lavatories, claims Labour MP Angela Eagle

[IwantToRetire]

Dame Angela Eagle, who is standing to be a Commons committee chairman, said lavatories were being “policed” at the expense of those who don’t conform to gender norms.

The MP for Wallasey said the heated debate about <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/06/12/labour-mp-challenge-keir-starmer-single-sex-spaces/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">trans people using single-sex spaces revolved around “recreating and then enforcing” gender stereotypes.
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peaking at a fringe event at the Trades Union Congress conference in Liverpool, she criticised <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/kemi-badenoch/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, for seeking to change the wording of the Equality Act to specify that it protects “<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Y3zfs/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/13/gender-neutral-lavatories-are-an-invasion-of-womens-privacy/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">biological sex”.

This would make it clear that trans women have to use the men’s lavatories, while trans men have to use the ladies’, Dame Angela said.

‘Policed at public facilities’She added: “Whilst that may affect a small number of people, the actual effect is that loads of non-gender-conforming women will effectively be being policed in their use of public facilities.

“We’ve never had to show a passport to get into the toilet before. I dread to think what else they might want us to show if they change the law.”

Dame Angela warned that people would be “challenged using the toilets” for merely deviating from gender norms, citing a “butch-looking woman” as someone at risk.

“This is all about recreating and then enforcing appearance, behaviour, making certain that you actually behave and look the way your sex, your gender ought to look,” she said.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/11/feminists-want-trans-women-to-show-passport-to-use-lavatory/

She was speaking at a fringe event at the Trades Union Congress conference. Article behind paywall but available to read at https://archive.ph/ just paste in the Telegraph link.

It wasn't just the Labour Party in the 70s. Women who came out as lesbian and left their husbands, more often than not lost custody of their children.

It is probably not a surprise to learn that LGB Alliance have not been given a stall at the Labour Party Conference!!

Our request for a stand at the Labour Party Conference was denied, so we’ve got together with Lesbian Labour and the Gay Mens Network to stage our own event in Liverpool. Join us on 8 October to hear what Labour needs to do to support LGB people.
https://www.facebook.com/LGBAllianceUK/posts/pfbid0bTmK6JXbGiLqE4yXhjux9M7emNXWCFBKEuXJwnm6FKfGwjNsuMvRpdEd6j6RCYDBl

That’s outrageous. LGB Alliance are a really important voice of truth in this whole sexist misogynistic mess. Honestly who the fuck makes these decisions about party conference stalls? Why can’t LGB Alooance be there? What utter contempt they are showing for LGB people, women, detransitioned people, children in emotional distress.

*Alliance!

Tell me why it's ok not to vote Labour without saying it's ok not to vote Labour.

Tbh Angela Eagle's 'Corbyn chucked a brick through my window' schtick when she stood against him for the leadership didn't square with reality.

Plus ca change.

I remember Angela Eagle's ludicrous leadership campaign a few years ago. Her brand consisted of her squiggly signature, written in pink. It was worthy of an Alan Partridge skit.

I also remember her appearing on a TV debate for Leave but every time she spoke she brought party politics into it. I think she had to have it pointed out to her that it wasn't a party issue.

She's an idiot and I suspect she is of the simpleton's view that

Tory = right wing = illiberal = anti-trans

And of course Labour is the opposite.

RealityFan fine but I’d assume that whoever signs off conference stall spaces isn’t on any of the Labour Party policy committees

I imagine it will be the Conference Organising Committee, which will not be an autonomous bunch of lowly Paperclip Monitors, randomly redeployed to deal with the wholly trivial matter of who is allowed to have stalls at such an entirely insignificant event in the Labour Party Calendar as Annual Conference.

As this article shows Angela Eagle isn't the only Labour woman who seems to live in some other reality.

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labour-trans-rights-gender-policy-women-together/

Well, I'm not even a woman, and I'm not convinced! 😀

'Instead of simply listing the characteristics that must not give rise to discrimination- such as race, disability, gender reassignment and sex- this flagship legislation dedicates considerable space to the relationships between them, and the exceptional circumstances where people can be treated differently in order to preserve the rights of others. This is why the Act was such an important achievement. Labour should be proud of having written this deep and thoughtful understanding of equality into our law.
There is still much detail to be worked through in Labour’s plans. This remains a highly complex area of law and policy. It is still not clear exactly how single-sex spaces will be protected, when providers report mounting confusion about when it is legal to exclude trans people from a service designed for the opposite sex.'

If it was so deep and thoughtful you'd think they would have anticipated what they are now calling a 'policy vacuum'. The issues were all pointed out at the time, it's all recorded in Hansard.

It is still not clear exactly how single-sex spaces will be protected, when providers report mounting confusion about when it is legal to exclude trans people from a service designed for the opposite sex.'

Labour should be proud of having written this deep and thoughtful understanding of equality into our law

As said above, if it was so brilliant why is there confusion. ie missing the really obvious point that when a well organised campaign group can capture those in politics, education, media, and so on, they can convince people that what is said isn't what is said.

There is no confusion about the single sex exemptions. ie it is even illustrated by the need for women survivors of rape to be able to turn to other women.

So it shows however well written something is, when you have weak and unprinciples politicians who are willing to spin words to make them mean the opposite of the original intent no one is safe.

And let's not forget that this famour victory for Labour is in fact the law that allow Lady Halden to say "for all purposes" as TW was a woman, because the silly female Spad delegated to help with the wording actually helped set up a law that allowed the minority, ie trans women, to have more rights than women who are actually women.

ie the exemptions should be for when a minority can be given additional rights, whereas the way the EA if drafted the majority, ie women are only on a few special occassion are given rights that should naturally be theirs.

Do you think anyone in the Labour Party actually understands just how damaging that phrasing in the law is to women's rights.

Just illustrates that they seem to accept they are so subordinate to men that they probably think the tiny token of the single sex exemptions are a huge win.

The trouble is, once someone tells you they believe in identified realities over actual reality and facts, it's a bit pointless expecting them to be capable of sense or rationality on anything else.

It's why I can't vote for any left party. Capacity to cope with reality as it is, is a fundamental part of fitness to function, never mind run a country.

Here is another article saying that Labours stance on gender isn't that great.

We share Labour Together policy fellow Ellie Cumbo’s welcome of Labour’s policy shift in her LabourList piece earlier this week, and many of her observations about the current direction of travel. However, we don’t agree that Labour can wait until it’s in government to fine-tune details of the gender recognition process.

Lack of detailed analysis now could unravel under questioning – like the suggestion, thankfully abandoned, that 99.9% of women don’t have penises.

https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labours-sex-and-gender-stance-is-a-good-start-but-womens-voices-remain-repressed/

That reads to me like some decent people saying, well, we're hoping for the best, really. And I'm not sure their limited optimism is justified.

I think Alice Bondi's article is excellent as "campaign material" targeting Labour members, particularly Labour activists and politicians.

It is wholly reasonable, does not vilify anyone and is stuffed full of links to articles, tweets and videos supporting the case made by LWD.

If it had been me, I would have been tempted to include video of the protest by transactivists at the 2020 #ExpelMe rally, where they let off smoke bombs at the foot of Grenfell Tower and one revolting "Bi Panda" in a gruesome mask paraded around sporting a neon-pink flashing dildo strapped to his groin.

Just in case anyone reading the article was unaware who is supposedly on "The Right Side of History".

https://twitter.com/luluchops1/status/1237280145175654400

https://twitter.com/Aja02537920/status/1237140747289272325

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3843873-Smoke-Bombs-outside-Labour-Womens-Declaration-meeting

Scottish Labour's stance during the GRR.

'It'll be fine, we have fixed the massive loopholes with amendments' - only to look slightly startled when the amendments were brushed aside.

I wonder if some Labour politicians are hobbled by their principles, in fact? Unable to grasp the way politics often works because they are so fixated on righteousness and think they can grapple it all to the RSOH by sheer force of will.

We need pragmatic nuts and bolts sorted out here. It's not about lofty virtuous genderfeels, it's about basic biological reality.

Agree Arabella and in addition to cross party support-gathering, which clearly is slowly happening among the current crop of MPs after the Westminster Hall debate in the summer, all incumbent and aspiring MPs need to wake up and realise that women want party politics go make hard commitments actual legal protections and change for women’s rights.

And that many women will refuse to vote for parties whose very best offer to women is to say that in practice they probably wouldn’t change anything from where we are currently. Which at the moment seems to be all the main parties.

I am really outraged on behalf of LGB Aliiance that they weren’t given a stand at the Labour conference and I would like to know the details of how that was justified- but the Conference Arrangement Committee from what I can tell online are keen and no doubt very hardworking constituency Labour party volunteers. Who may well come with misogynistic or simplistic uninformed about gender identity politics views that the elected and aspiring MPs and party workers and other members might find to be worryingly #nodebate or might not.

So if the decision not to allow LGB Alliance to exhibit was made simply because they didn’t like LGB alliance’s politics then that is a shocking decision, but i will stand by my assertion that the people who organize the conference are very much not the same influential people who write party policies or run for election. I welcome any evidence to the contrary if anyone has that of course.

..but the Conference Arrangement Committee from what I can tell online are keen and no doubt very hardworking constituency Labour party volunteers. Who may well come with misogynistic or simplistic uninformed about gender identity politics views that the elected and aspiring MPs and party workers and other members might find to be worryingly #nodebate or might not.

Well, if they are "very hardworking constituency Labour party volunteers" from the likes of this constituency, we shouldn't be at all surprised at their decision, should we?
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4894589-councillor-removed-from-lead-role-for-engaging-with-transphobic-posts-on-social-media

Well yeah. Every person who says a TW is a woman offends me. If it's not alright to offend, they will all need to shut up.

It's ridiculous to make out anyone is asking to see passports. Like anyone would need to see a passport to know the likes of Eddie Izzard and Lea Thomas are males fgs.

I think Alice Bondi's article is excellent as "campaign material" targeting Labour members, particularly Labour activists and politicians.

Isn't she part of the WPUK, Actual Gender Critical Left overlap of socialist feminists (and by default FiLia who desperately want to be one of the head girls).

If she isn't then what I am about to say is totally not applicable to her. ie GC Socialists who can be very reasonable when wanting to be accepted by the male left, but who are totally vindictive about other GC women who aren't left aligned.

I would rather focus on the content of the article as campaign material from LWD, rather than the associations and allegiances of the author.

However, I must admit that some of those women (WPUK/AGCL/FiLia/RadicalNotion) have been so vindictive that I can no longer bring myself to read what they write, even when an article does not appear to be a targeted attack on another woman. I've been caught out when an ostensibly sensible article turned out to include a couple of gratuitous acid bombs. They just can't help themselves and I stop reading in disgust.

I have met Alice a couple of times, know her a bit from interactions online and would say that she is on the outer fringes if we put the toxic socfems of AGCL at the centre.

She seems focussed on LWD and although LWD does have overlaps of interest with WPUK and Filia in terms of the Labour Party and LWD supports WPUK/FiLia, I don't know if there are overlaps of personnel?

I didn't know if Alice was involved in the machinations and spite spun out by the handful of women generating all the bile coming out of the AGCL FB Group, so I have had a peek into the snake pit. Looks like she joined 11 Feb 2022 and has contributed one comment, made two days later on a post by a fellow LWD member, both of them having a go at KJK.

Looking at her Twitter, she supports Maya, Sex Matters and JKR, whereas the fanatical core of AGCL despises and condemns anyone and everyone who has ever had a good word to say about KJK: guilt by association run riot.

There's evidence of preparedness to work across party boundaries, both locally and in that LWD was part of "Women Uniting", which I cannot imagine the AGCL core countenancing since "Women Uniting" included not just Tories but those dreadful cross-partisan fiends at WDI (WHRC as was).

https://labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Letter-to-Liz-Truss-about-protecting-single-sex-spaces.pdf

Apart from that one snarky comment on AGCL, which looks like it might have been to back-up her LWD pal rather being than unprompted, AFAIK she hasn't been involved in divisive attacks on other GC women.

Even if she had been, I would still think that it was a good article, carefully constructed and including an unobtrusive "educational" aspect woven in via links.

Just for anyone who wants to torture themselves with what Labour are saying to each other, here are all the trans gender articles.

‘We should be proud of Labour’s LGBT+ agenda – but keep fighting for self-ID’LGBT+ Labour’s Lily Soaper and Dylan Naylor write in the fourth piece in a series by authors with…
https://labourlist.org/2023/09/lgbt-labour-trans-rights-gender-self-id-women/

‘Labour’s sex and gender stance is a good start, but women’s voices remain repressed’
Labour Women’s Declaration’s Alice Bondi writes in the third of a series of pieces by authors with different…
https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labours-sex-and-gender-stance-is-a-good-start-but-womens-voices-remain-repressed/

‘Labour’s got it wrong on self-ID – and a generation won’t forgive us for it’
Labour for Trans Rights co-chair Alex Charilaou writes in the second of a series of pieces this week…
https://labourlist.org/2023/09/trans-gender-self-id-recognition-labour-stance-wrong/

‘Labour’s gender policy is right — and it shows a party ready to govern’
Labour Together’s Ellie Cumbo writes in the first of a series of pieces by authors with different perspectives…
https://labourlist.org/2023/09/labour-trans-rights-gender-policy-women-together/

Utter blather. And clear that they know - like we do- that official party policy is a long way off. Why don’t the Labour party just get off the bloody fence? Let the TRAs vote green. That’s fine. Labour needs to support women. I’m a frustrated Labour voter and there is still no major party that supports women to give my vote to. FFS.