Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

So you have two men in skirts standing in front of you

One is a nice trans woman who just wants to pee
One is a sexual predator in a skirt who wants to go in the ladies bathroom to wank in the bathroom stall next to you and stick a mobile phone under the wall to record you peeing and stick it on the dark web

How do you tell the difference by looking at them when they both look so pretty in their skirt and wig?

And again - (I've been at this for 37 pages now and no one in favour of trans male people in women's spaces have answered) - what do we do with the women who can no longer use the women's space if either of these male people insist on being in there in pursuit of their own agenda and happiness?

What do we do with all the women that these male people are excluding and pushing out of any space at all to live their 'best lives'?

Surely 'gentle souls' (I do wonder how K White's raped victims feel about this ridiculous and awful piece of crass sentiment, particularly the one White left so badly injured after multiply raping her all night on the women's mental health hospital ward that White identified into, that she's unlikely to ever be able to have a pregnancy) would not treat women this badly?

I mean, are we just supposed to dehumanise these inconvenient women, or what? Go home, multi ethnic women, disabled women, abused women, you're old hat and thanks for your taxes, but men come first, you're not equally human to men and there's no room for you any more in our 'inclusive' and 'kind' society? Only good girls who can revolve their lives around the inside of a man's head can have toilets, healthcare, the police etc that their taxes pay for?

I won't witter about those women being 'lovely' or 'gentle souls' because a) I don't know them all, b) they're not pet kittens and that is deeply patronising, and c) it really doesn't matter if they are absolute cows. They still have equality of rights, humanity and access.

As a society we are enabling and even encouraging mental fragility in people.
When people have to have 'safe spaces' to be free of disagreement or views that we don't agree with - we are living in an unhealthy state of neurosis; and when people are being encouraged, and enabled to construct an inherently shaky sense of self - which is utterly dependent on having everyone else validate it, even against their own instincts and welfare, and against reality - I think we've truly reached a state of social and moral decline, and decadence.

Transgenderism really It is the apotheosis of american consumer culture and the cult of the Self - nothing progressive about it at all.

Great post @Froodwithatowel 👏🏻

Only once the male has committed a harm are women allowed to object.

Not that they will ever admit this but this is the crux of the issue, just like they will never admit how many women and girls harmed or excluded will give them pause enough to think that perhaps they have got this wrong. It's a repellent point of view sacrificing women and girls on the altar of their oh so righteous cause and they dare to claim we are the hateful ones? Just how much hatred must you have within you to use women and girls as collateral damage like this.

one does not stand down to bullies sorry

No we won't stand down to bully TRAs and their equally bullying or simpering, craven allies who want to tear up safeguarding, offer up women and girls on a plate to this ideology, remove safety, privacy, dignity and choice from women and girls and the right to speak and think freely @Talltall.

@GailBlancheViola

you clearly haven't understood my position atall and have just read the last reply.

it's seems mumsnet can no longer have a discussion why people are safe

it's more if you share an option people at the crazy end of each argument don't agree with you get abuse.

sad really

I'm going to do something I never thought I would do, and stick up for Isla Bryson here.

Isla is just as much a transwoman as any other transwoman.

How do we, or anyone, know that Isla is not 'genuine'?

Thenk you darling.

One does one's best.

Quite.

And if you are going to insist that Bryson cannot be genuine because genuine TW don't rape....?

That's more than slightly dodgy to start with, who and how will it be decided who gets to be T and who doesn't? Is it something intrinsic and inborn to a person or is this suggesting it's a choice that the answer can be 'no' to?

And if, suspending reality for a moment, you could say to male T people who transgress the rules set for 'being permitted to be trans' - which would and should be an instant human rights case - how do you intend to make Bryson stop?

Are you going to send people to confiscate his clothes and wigs? Undo any surgery? Take away his medication?

Who is going to follow him around to ensure he doesn't walk into women's spaces? Who is going to argue with him at the changing room doorway in M&S, and the loo in the train station?

It's absolutely unmanageable, and it's wrong. Any male who identifies as trans is trans. That this messes with someone's cognitive dissonance and comfort with the idea of male people in women's spaces is irrelevant. TW are a very large, diverse group - like the rest of the male sex - and there is no way to limit the ones in women's spaces to the nice, safe ones.

And it does not matter if you could, because even if you personally Vulcan mind melded every single one on the doorstep, you would STILL exclude women who cannot share with males, even lovely safe ones. And the first job of a woman's space is to be inclusive and accessible to women.

So you get two choices basically:

Prioritise this group of males and accept that a large number of women will be distressed, uncomfortable, excluded, harmed, harassed, assaulted and raped BUT you think this is worth it to meet the perceived 'need' of these male people.

Or look for a way in which to provide these male people with an alternative space that recognises their choice and identity, ensures them an alternative to the men's provision they do not wish to use, AND provide a female only space in addition which you expect these male people to respect in the same way their needs are being respected.

Basically, do you or do you not believe females are of the same worth as male people, and do you treat them with equality?

Only once the male has committed a harm are women allowed to object

except the harms have already been committed. And yet we are still not "allowed" to object.

at the risk of stoking your ire because you got an email notification: just what is your actual position.

Because looking back it seems to be that (i hope i have this right) you think SelfID is wrong, only people with Gender Dysphoria are trans (and therefore qualify for a GRC) and that Gender Dysphoria is a mental illness that must be diagnosed by a clinician?

Is that it?

@Talltall, what abuse have you suffered here?

So enlighten me as to what your position is.

You have stated that trans people are gentle souls, how have you arrived at this conclusion? Do you know every single trans person there is and can vouch 100% for their character?

How can someone tell on first sight whether a trans person is genuine and a gentle soul from one who is not or one who is (in your words) pretending to be trans?

The women who were forced to undress in front of Isla Bryson on the Beauty Course even though they felt extremely uncomfortable doing so were unaware that he (according to you) was a 'pretend' transwoman, but was in fact a rapist convicted not long after. If the Jury had found the other way would you suddenly decide that Isla Bryson is a true transwoman after all?

We know that not all men are potential rapists and abusers we also know that we cannot know which is which until the damage has been done.

Safeguarding is there for a reason, safeguarding looks at the worst possible scenario in order to safeguard, that may be uncomfortable but so what?

Isla Bryson only started transitioning after he was charged with sex crimes against women.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/28/trans-woman-isla-bryson-jailed-raping-two-women

Bryson, 31, committed offences in Clydebank and Glasgow in 2016 and 2019 before transitioning.

How anyone could stick up for a rapist is beyond me.

Funny how TallTall could respond to someone to chastise them but not to answer my reasonable and polite question

I think that TRA wants it that trans IDing is all things to all trans, not a million miles different from Christians believing in an interchangeable Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

So, trans can be just what you say it is, pure projection of authentic self, and this can then vary. No need for outside adjudication, purely at the behest of the trans individual.

It can be purely IDing as a different gender, no gender, both genders.

It can mean literally IDing as the opposite sex, with the attendant issues that entails.

It can mean that other trans can call out other trans for not being trans (plenty doubted Isla Bryson and the NB in the American mass shooting some months back).

Critically, no evidence, no science, no consensus is needed. Its purely for the individual to announce to the world, and the world to accept, without hesitation, rancour or judgement.

That's why its both a circular hermetically sealed concept, only open re declaration to those within the concept.

But also no concept at all, just a figment of one's imagination, no more real than an online avatar.

And yes, society has to accept an ID system that cannot be interrogated, because this both demeans the individual, and there is nothing there to interrogate beyond wispy thoughts.

And on this basis, women expected to give up over a century of hard fought rights.

Cosmos, alongside ROGD for teenage girls, maybe we need PTGD (Prison-triggered-gender-dysphoria) for all these sex offenders suddenly discovering their transwoman identities...

The number of "transwomen" ex-prisoners who revert to their male identity upon release would make for interesting reading, I exepct.

How do you intend to police and stop the ones who transition after crimes? Who are transitioning for the wrong reasons? Who's going to judge their reasons? There isn't a form to fill in for permission to do it.

How are you going to keep them on a daily basis out of women's spaces?

It can't be done. If it's one, it's all. And you cannot decide that trans is fine for some but not others because it makes it very uncomfortable to think of male people you don't approve of in women's spaces.

Again, it makes no odds to women anyway: they're still going to be excluded. Which is unacceptable. That exclusion and subordination of women as a sex class doesn't get any nicer if they're being oppressed only by nice, approved men with approved reasons.

The Scottish prison study that Maycock did was indeed enlightening reading.

https://academic.oup.com/bjc/article/62/4/1000/6370239

Male people most assuredly do ‘detransition’ after they leave prison.

The utter entitlement of people who believe that they are entitled to safe spaces where they won't encounter the wrong opinions, but that female rape survivors, Muslim women and 13 year old girls aren't entitled to safe spaces where they won't encounter strangers' penises.

What? No answers?? How surprising is that!!!

To be clear: he's an awful human being. A predatory, violent rapist.

I still don't see how he is not 'trans' though. He says he's trans, so he is.

I am a few pages behind but loudly snorted when ArabeIIaScott was chided to "keep up".

I just wonder what skin in the game the vehement biology deniers have?

What makes people think that women are so unimportant that we should have no rights because if a man says he is a woman he must be treated as one?

Must either be trans or the parents / close family of a child who has been sold a lie?

Because surely no other woman can have such internalised misogyny that they can have the issues spelt out and STILL think that the feelings of men should come first?

One thing I found particularly interesting in that study is that even Maycock himself recognises that the responses from female prisoners undoubtedly underreported their bad experiences due to the interviewer being both male and a employee of the Scottish Prison Service.

I know. Arabella of all people on here!