Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

That’s my experience too, and I‘ve always considered myself more left-leaning.

There is a whole slew of questions missed. It is like 5-10 pages was missed…. Often the questions were repeated with slight variations by different posters.

All seeking clarity. I mean I threw in the Staniland question with the aim of finding the clarity of the limits proposed by the poster. Because there is no clarity to what their solution entails. It just seems to be repeating some supposedly tolerant thoughts as if that works for safeguarding….

But I am here for the answers. Let’s see if we get any.

Arabella Snort!!!

Although I have to nominate you for truly having lovely manners on MN.

same and will henceforth consign it to the bin of Things On The Internet That I Will Stop Doing

Apols all round if i ticked anyone off by doing that.

I do admit to having a habit of using the quoting facility kindly provided by MN. It does generate notifications too and I apologise to all who are annoyed by my using the quote function.

Well, I use it but often quote using bold in the post as well so people know clearly what I am replying to. And I do sometimes expect the original quote to be deleted so will capture it in my post so my post makes sense.

i think a separate MNetiquette convo might not go amis? Because i quote too, especially if I'm (fashionably) late to a long thread and want to address a particular point.

Would it be better on Site Stuff?

Wonderful logic. Women won’t be able to complain for fear of being labeled transphobic, but that’s okay, because they may well be transphobic

Shh everyone, don't explain how MN notifications work It is genuinely hilarious how somebody clearly doesn't understand the barest basics of discussing things on a discussion forum, and yet are utterly certain that they are transmitting nuggets of exquisite education about Being Righteous As a Poster Folx for The Right Side Of History, we really couldn't ask for a better one!

i ask you to leave me alone yet you can’t.
you are harassing
and not even hearing my position.

What is your position? What I've gathered from your posts is that you think 'real' trans people would not be be any danger to women, and that being trans is a mental illness which can be diagnosed. Is that roughly right?

Multiple posters have tried to engage with you on the flaws in that position, but you don't seem to be reading what they are saying and instead objecting to them referencing you and calling that harrassment. If you come to a discussion forum, you surely expect people to discuss?

I seen posters on recent threads throwing around accusations like Robbie the bleedin' robot ('Danger! Will Robinson') but completely fail to substantiate any of them. When I've looked back myself I've seen only disagreement.

TRAs don't want to discuss. They want to bully, belittle and shout down everyone standing up for women and children's right to privacy and a safe space.

You are assuming that a transgender woman is going to abuse you.

No we‘re assuming that a biologically male person, however they identify, might abuse us.
Hence the need for single sex spaces.
Stop twisting what people are saying.

For the last time, nobody is bullying you, and I certainly have not sent you any messages.

I don't understand your position, no. Which is why I have asked you questions, to better understand it. The fact that you refuse to answer questions and keep accusing me of bullying you suggests, at best, that you don't understand your own position either, and at worst, that you are not arguing in good faith but are just trying to provoke me into saying something against the talk guidelines which you can then report. For this reason I am going to stop engaging with you now. Your attitude speaks for itself.

Here we go again. There is no need to ‚go through all the trouble to become trans‘, what ‚trouble‘?
A man could wear a dress, or just put on a bit of lipstick, or simply claim he‘s a woman - that’s all it takes to get into (what should be) women‘s single sex spaces.
A ‚cis‘ man can be challenged if he enters those spaces, a man who claims to be a woman (whether he’s genuinely trans or not) can’t.

Barely-relevant linguistics warning:

Trans doesn't mean opposite or on the other side. It means across, or over in the sense of 'move over'. Hence transnational, transatlantic, translate, transfer, transaction, transpose.

Transgender implies moving across from one gender to the other. Pretty straightforward.

The Roman Empire referred to the world north of Italy as transalpine - across the Alps. Cis in Latin means close, near and similar terms relating to 'here/now'. So the meaning of cisalpine was more like our side of the Alps, as in close to home.

Cisgender would correctly mean something like 'within gender'. It's a lot less straightforward. It still implies having a gender identity consistent with the stereotypes expected of one's sex. Semantically, it should also apply to any good performance of a gender stereotype and even to any component of a gender stereotype (belligerence is cisgender for men?!)

The only point of this post is that cis and trans are not opposites, either linguistically or conceptually. It's just another aspect of the tortuous word salad epitomised by genderism - none of it makes actual sense! Which is the point, I suppose. The whole thing's a bullshit bafflement barrier.

My question is "do trans allies (who do not see themselves as transgender) see themselves as 'cisgender'?" If they do, do they ever notice that they are being slurred by those who, very clearly, use 'cis' as a slur?

Do we need a recap of all the questions asked to help understand just what the fucking hell that poster actually means?

I am happy to distill them down.

Hence the mantra 'good men stay out so bad men stand out'

So you have two men in skirts standing in front of you

One is a nice trans woman who just wants to pee
One is a sexual predator in a skirt who wants to go in the ladies bathroom to wank in the bathroom stall next to you and stick a mobile phone under the wall to record you peeing and stick it on the dark web

How do you tell the difference by looking at them when they both look so pretty in their skirt and wig?

There's a fundamental problem at the heart of trans activism that if it was resolved a lot of disagreement and argument would go away.
The problem is this :
Whoever says they are trans is trans with no exceptions. There is no mechanism to sort genuine trans people from people who want to abuse the mantle of trans to get away with predatory behaviour.
A male predator who sees trans as a mechanism to enable their predatory behaviour, and utters the magic words "I'm a trans women" now has a magic get out of jail card.

One example out of thousands Isla Bryson. A double rapist who wants a cushier life behind bars and access to women, presumably for more rape. When asked what gender he is Nicola Sturgeon decides rapist is a new gender because the question is so difficult to answer.

All of that goes away if you see a rapist who's decided he wants to be a woman now as a male rapist. Once the trans activists stop standing up for the rights of the very worst in our society over and above the rights of law abiding women, 99% of the problems dissappear. The treatment and public image of geinue trans people will improve immeasurably, and the debate will become far less febrile. But until the admission that TWAW is open to predatory men who would abuse it as cover for predatory behaviour is made then the current progress of women standing up for their rights will continue and the resulting conflict will continue. Women won't wheesht. You've been screaming at women to shut up for years. It's not working, it will continue to not work. Try something else or continue losing.

Ohh you've given me the perfect excuse for a favourite meme.

It's real by the way, for any doubters. Of the three people pictured, one is a trans woman, one is non binary and one is a man. You don't even need lippy or blue hair, if you say you're trans, you automatically are.

‚Obviously‘? So someone can only be either a ‚trans exclusionary radical feminist‘ or LGBT/ an ally?
What if someone doesn’t like transpeople, but also doesn’t like feminists?

'Heathen' and 'infidel' have been in the dictionary a long time too - but it doesn't mean that it is acceptable to apply those terms to someone outside of the religions which use them. People who subscribe to those faiths do, of course - just like genderists use 'cis'.

'Dysphoria' begins with a meaningful prefix. The word does suggest illness or wrong perception

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
dys- prefix
1 · abnormal. dysplasia ;
2 · difficult. dysphagia ;
3 · impaired. dysfunction ;
4 · bad. dyslogistic.

It sure does

We don’t reorder society for people with other dys conditions

Eg body dysmorphia

We treat it

Genetically, there can be crossover... I'm all fine with that, and I absolutely empathise with people born 'in the middle'.

But this world where ANYONE can claim to be anything, and everyone has to suddenly agree, is crazy.

People are pushing back because they feel they're being taken for mugs. It's not a democracy if a minority dictate how things are done, and using the reasoning that they deserve a life too is opening yourself up to an 'anything goes' society... men identifying as women so they can shower with young girls... (as has happened)... or elite bodybuilders smashing all female records to then re-identify as men.

I can see why people are upset.