Worrying Increase in Transphobia

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/09/transphobia-uk-press-media-negative-coverage/

An increase in transphobic sentiment among the British public has been fuelled by hostile coverage of trans people from the right-wing press, argues data journalist Ell Folan....

Unfortunately, newspapers still have a great deal of influence on the public and political agenda in Britain, and nowhere is this more obvious than in how perceptions of trans rights have changed.

As recently as Feburary 2021, an absolute majority of British voters (51 per cent) agreed with the statement “a transgender woman is a woman”, including 6 in 10 women. Just 34 per cent disagreed. But after years of negative coverage from the press, those numbers have changed.

In April this year, only 33 per cent of voters agreed that trans women are women, with 47 per cent disagreeing....

It is clear that the media plays an important role in shaping public perceptions, and unless their negative coverage is corrected and refuted, public opinion will continue to worsen.

The term “transphobia” has no impact at all.

Nobody likes to be thought of as phobic in contexts such as xenophobia and homophobia, but “transphobia” covers positions that are either scientifically provable fact, or simple common sense.

Positions like:

• Human beings cannot change sex
• Lesbians do not have penises
• Male-bodied people do not belong in women’s sports

If you’re telling me those statements are wrong then hell, I don’t want to be right.

Gender ideology will never prevail because it is a belief system that simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The more daylight it is subjected to, the more it withers.

So why DO trans women so desperately want to be able to use women’s spaces?

I’ve heard it’s because they aren’t safe using spaces for men as they may get beaten up for being trans.

So the answer is ‘we are safer using women’s spaces’ because presumably, women won’t physically harm them. even if the women are also unhappy about this they won’t do anything as they are the weaker sex so unlikely to beat anyone up, just put up with it. So at least the trans women are safe.

So then the women say they don’t feel safe with trans women (or random men who decide for bad reasons to identify as a woman for the day) using female spaces so they say ‘we need our own spaces to feel safe’

and everyone says ‘shut up and stop being so angry, not all men/ trans women are bad just get on with it’

Does anyone see the irony in this?

Well it certainly got press attention. I think it highlighted the problem with self ID perfectly. If you give everyone the right to choose their sex then even when you think they are "at it" then they have to be given equal protection under the law.

TRAs have been saying for years that it never happens and there is no debate and have been hoisted with their own petard. It does happen and people are still twitchy about debate so they just quietly decide that blokes cant be women after all.

I think every time there is another article about barbie kardashian or women not being allowed to form same sex rape support groups or have lesbian dating nights in a bar. Then support for TWAW dwindles quietly whether through education, wow so he still has a penis?Or an accptance that all people have rights and trans people don't trump everyone elses.

“how people try to destroy others”

Like the (too often successful) attempts to get people (mostly women) sacked from their jobs for their belief that single-sex female-only spaces should be retained?

Or are you thinking of the “decapitate TERFs” signs or the public exhortations to “punch a TERF” which were met with rapturous applause from the crowd of those who claim to support people who identify as transgender?

Or the physical assaults on women by those campaignIng for the right to single-sex female-only spaces from women?

@Talltall what rights do trans people not have in the UK? No one is talking about removing trans people rights, they have the same rights as everyone else.

what TW can’t have is woman’s rights because they’re men & they can’t demand to be affirmed as a member of the opposite sex when they’re not

I’m still waiting for examples of hatred on this thread.

Bluesky85
Does anyone see the irony in this?

So many of the demands placed on women are double binds that leave us damned if we do, damned if we don't that I assume its deliberate, crazymaking behaviour until proven otherwise.

@Theeyeballsinthesky

sorry again you try and deflect.
this is not the topic of this post
it was about increased anti trans feeling
why do you have such a desire to drag it down to your piont and then argue with people.
it's really shameful.

Maybe start a separate thread for discussion of religions and race, and keep this one focused on the opening topic of accusations of transphobia being made based on survey responses and differing perceptions of what transphobia, trans rights, and being trans means?

Not thread policing, but it’s been a useful discussion and it would be a shame for the thread to get deleted as a result of moving in to even more sensitive topics than that in the OP.

That was to @PorcelinaV and @GCAcademic

I’m not saying your discussion is irrelevant / inappropriate/ trying to censor you, but perhaps prudent to do a separate thread.

Oh yawn

It's subjective, but I don't think you're reading the thread if you can't or won't see this.
No-one is going to do the work for you

I just don't buy the it's unsafe argument & the idea that someone who is transgender is doing it because they want to infiltrate a toilet

Thats not the argument. It’s the other way round: men could pretend to be TW so they could go into the Female toilets. Female toilets are for female people. Having female only toilets doesn’t imply that all male people are awful pervs and predators. However, there’s no way we can tell: therefore we have a blanket ban on males. TW are male by definition. Most, of course, aren’t predators or pervs, but a small number will be, just like with untransitioned men. Again, there’s no way to tell.

Just because you don’t mind sharing Female toilets with male people, it doesn’t mean other women feel the same. Some might feel anxious as survivors of sexual assault, some might not want it for religious reasons, some simply might not want it for reasons of privacy and dignity.

Your comment about not being able to tell who is a TW is disingenuous in the extreme. Humans, particularly women, can sex other adults correctly the vast majority of the time. Yes, transmen might initial cause a second look because so many like to have facial hair to try to look more masculine, but their sex usually becomes obvious. Of course, the easy solution is a third space - a unisex toilet, for TW, TM and anyone like you who wishes to use it.

@BreatheAndFocus

that wasn't the topic of this post
and it's sorted by diagnosis.
versus self identification.

as that's how is always was

@Messyhair321 do you think women saying no to males in single sex spaces or male bodies in female sports is hatred?

Ditto the statement you cannot change your biological sex

Yes, it’s fascinating how the public discourse on this never comes at the discussion from the opposite direction of: why can’t males who are not transgender make sure that males who do identify as transgender are safe in male spaces?

I made a similar point in response to one of the “fuss about nothing” “they’re just getting on with their lives” posters.

And then the importance of the legal words becomes self evident

Funny how it is always the "I am old" posters like @Messyhair321who claimed to have lived through open sexism claim that the current sexism is not a problem.

To those who seem to think that TWAW, at what point would you say that a male 'becomes' female?

If you allow people to self ID as women then it doesn't matter whether they are pretending to be transgender or a violent male who is transgender. By allowing men into women's spaces then they are more at risk.

I don't fear transgender people. I do feel upset for the women in sport who have missed out on medals, competitions and training because there is a man in her spot. I feel for the, often vulnerable, women in prison who have had to share with men. I feel for the women/ children who have been frightened or intimidating by a man getting their jollies off by stripping in a women's changing room.

I feel for the female rape victims denied single sex support groups, who try to form their own and are hounded by TRA's who contact everyone to ensure they have no safe space to gather. I mean doesn't that just seem like bullying to you?

Surely be kind should go both ways? Why isn't there flexibility and understanding and campaigning for mixed sex/ third spaces to accomodate transgender people. Instead it's any dissent and you're a transphobe. Which used to be a proper insult but as it turns out it's pretty much everyone who isn't full on TWAW. It's a bit like walking into a crowded pub and telling someone they are an arsehole. People will look and wonder what heinous things you did and it will be embarrassing. If you walk into a crowded pub and scream you're all arseholes. People will just assume you have "issues" and/ or are an arsehole yourself. So its really lost it's power.

You do realise that suggesting that trans is a condition requiring a diagnosis is very, very transphobic, don't you? ALL that is required to be trans, is to say you are. That's it. Anything else is gatekeeping. Educate yourself.

If someone is legally female or male that's what they are as far as I'm concerned. You can't then start arguing that they are still a man or woman. Thats my take on it.

And I feel it's a bit far fetched to suggest that someone is going to pretend to be a woman just to use the toilet. This sounds very strange to me, I'd like to see examples of this.

If a person is going to abuse they won't dress up in order to do that, they're going to do it anyway. I don't see hoards of Trans people doing this. It will be the smallest minority as with any sector of society.

I also don't agree at all that you can tell who is trans & not. There are many many traditionally masculine appearing women & effeminate men who someone like you might just assume is trans. I would avoid going down that road if I were you. Because you really can't tell. Unless you look at the feet if trans men, they're usually smaller than they would be for a man. But who the hell goes around looking at feet. And this isn't exactly science anyway because there's loads of men with small feet

What rights do trans people not have?

Oh lord. 'A bit far fetched '? Have you never heard of Katie Dolokowski? And the 'bad people gonna bad people ' argument is so lazy. If you think that, presumably you leave your front door wide open when you go out? I mean, burglars exist so why bother to try to lessen the chance of it happening?

I'm sure a better informed poster then me will soon be along to tell you about q angles, and all the other ways humans find it extremely easy to sex other humans.

Edited for typo.

If someone is legally female or male that's what they are as far as I'm concerned. You can't then start arguing that they are still a man or woman. Thats my take on it.

Like this legal woman, in a women's shelter in Canada?

Or this legal woman, until recently in a woman's prison, in Ireland:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-hairdresser-pulled-clumps-hair-30454455