New sports club at DC’s high school only open to LGBTQ+ pupils and their allies

[SirChenjins]

Are they legally allowed to exclude GC pupils? Or pupils who are not one of the special alphabet children?

This is a really great club - nothing like the school has offered before. Seems a shame to limit attendance based on sexuality/gender ideology rather than interest/ability.

We’re in Scotland if that makes a difference.

Could a GC lesbian attend?

What protected characteristic do they share?

Except in that instance, 'Sarah' is trying to set up a group for women only, when there are already groups available for men, trans people and people who are happy in a mixed group. She's not trying to exclude anyone from having access to agroup, everyone else is already catered for.The OP is talking about the only group for this activity being for LGBTQ+ and their allies, thereby leaving anyone else, let's say those with the protected characteristic of religion or belief, with no group.

its the word “allies” that’s the problem. Sports club to encourage LGBTQ+ children to play a particular sport fine (usual caveats of dangers of mixed sex ie strength, speed apply of course) but “and allies”?

“hey do you want to go to x sports club for lgbtq+”

“no it’s okay”

”why not???”

”im not lgbtq & I don’t like that sport”

”so aren’t you an ally? Do you hate trans ppl?? Are you homophobic?? Urgh”

”No I just don’t want to go”

”I don’t believe you! Transphobe! Bigot!”

I don't know, that's why I posed it as a question.

Singling one group of children out for special, better treatment never ends well, in my experience

Surely the answer there is to provide the same treatment in clubs for other children?

It’s an awkward predicament.
Your son wants to participate in the sport, but this comes at the cost of publicly supporting aspects of LGBTQIA (namely, gender ideology) with which he doesn’t believe.
If he asks to create a club for people to participate in the sport without this alignment, he is publicly saying that he doesn’t want to support LGBTQIA*, which includes parts he probably is supportive of (namely, gay rights).

It’s a real conundrum.

The school shouldn’t be forcing children to make such huge political statements in order to play a sport they’re interested in.

I'm guessing it's being done at a state school.

Would it be OK to use a public institution and quite possibly public money (maybe teachers are volunteering as well, I don't know if they are getting paid for their time) to give special services for socialist students? If you're a socialist you will get better facilities than other students?

Or what about only providing a sports club for a particular racial group? Is that acceptable?

Now I know with those on the left, they may actually support racial discrimination as long as it's in favour of minorities. But it’s still going to be highly controversial.

I was wondering the same @WeWereInParis .

If it's for LGBT+ and their allies as OP said, that would imply you have to be LGBT+ and/or an ally - you don't have to be both. So yes a GC lesbian could attend. (Would a BAME group accept a black member who was a white supremacist? Genuinely wondering.)

In which case I suppose OP's DS could identify as queer, since there's not really any definition. Or come to think of it, take the Pip Bunce approach and just identify as trans for the one hour a week that the club is on.

Yes

sorry if i gave the impression that i didnt agree with OP or sarah

my point was more dancingbear was saying that ‘GC types’ were doing this which (in the OPs case) they are not, whilst being fine with activists doing it to sarah

Lots of excellent posts and certainly a lot to think about. I do want to take this up with the school, simply because I feel very uncomfortable with children only being given access to a sports club (which is a mixed sport btw) if they pin their colours to the gender ideology mast from aged 11. Much as I would love to volunteer as a pp suggested, a)I don't have any experience of this pretty niche sport, b) I work, and c)my son would die a death if his mum pitched up to the school.

It's just there for children who would be subject to homophones bullying in a normal sports club. Sports clubs are always the worst for this.
It has nothing to do with GC views.unless your kid wants to go to a sports club and start telling all the trans kids they are not really trans.

If it’s a mixed sport, I don’t understand why they don’t just say it’s open to everybody and that’s it. The fewer labels applied to kids at school the better

I'll wait for the trampoline club for Labour voters' kids and their friends. (Obviously only the Right Kind of friends.)

Can you imagine the fuss if they tried using the exceptions for girls?

Yes. It is about a special privileged class of kids and their friends. Which would be fine and there'd probably be valid reasons for if I wasn't aware of the screaming hypocrisy, prejudice, discrimination, homophobia, racism, classism, religious intolerance and misogyny all tangled up in it. My naive belief of good intentions was murdered a long time back.

It has everything to do with GC and neutral views. I think this is part of the problem of lumping everything together under the same rainbow umbrella - you can be gay or lesbian, or reject homophobia in all its forms, and be GC or hold no views on gender ideology. The latter should not exclude you from joining a club.

Of course, it should also be pointed out that girls and women should have the right to meet without boys and men, and should not have to fight for that.

Then the school should be tackling the bullying in those clubs, not setting up a single "safe" club.

All this is likely to do is reinforce divisions between these children and their peers. Designating one club as a safe space where they will not be subjected to homophobic or transphobic bullying perpetuates the victim narrative by making the default assumption that the other clubs are not safe spaces for these children.

And from what I am hearing from parents of younger teens, the next generation coming up through the school system is starting to peak. They're rolling their eyes hard at all the trans and non binary stuff and writing those kids off as sad attention seekers. This kind of stuff is absolutely not going to help with that.

Can you imagine any school setting up a black rollerblading club for black children and their allies, where they can be safe from racism? I can't. I think there would be outrage, not least from the black children and their families themselves, and rightly so.

I think it's a good thing if trans kids want to compete against each other instead of wanting to enter female races tbh.

Perpetuates the victims narrative
That tells me all I need to know.
How many out gay football or rugby players are there?
And clubs are supposed to have been tackling homophobic bullying in sports clubs for years. It still happens.
Would you complain that a girls only club should not be set up due to sexist harassment as the leaders in the mixed club should just tackle the sexism?

I think it makes perfect sense. For example, I don’t agree that trans women should be allowed to participate in women’s sports, so it’s only fair to have LGBT sports activities for those who don’t mind? It doesn’t have to be all one way or another surely?

Try setting up a girls only club nowadays @everetting - good luck with that one.

The whole thing reeks of a straight (white?) male being told something isn't for him, it's for others.

He's welcome to either join as an ally or stay away. He should be mindful of the fact that some kids in this club will be vulnerable, or struggling, or have experienced bullying. Some may even know their sexuality is unacceptable to their families. The sport is incidental to the true purpose here and if he's going to join he needs to respect that.

If not, then there's a whole world out there for him - a world in which he likely has significant privilege.

Oh why can’t all the virtue signallers and ‘allies’ READ THE ORIGINAL POST?

This is the only opportunity that the school is offering to play this particular sport. The only opportunity, yes, have we understood that bit? No other opportunity at this school for this activity.

however, it has been decided that only children ’ identifying’ as other than their natal sex , and children who are ‘ allies’ ( what does that mean?) are going to be allowed this opportunity . If you are a boy who is quite happy being a boy, for example, you are not going to be allowed to play lacrosse, or curling or whatever this sport is.

And you approve of this denial of facilities based on what ? Subscription to some sort of belief? Or approval of the subscription?

OP, this is the dangerous thin end of the wedge. What next? No French lessons for children who are not OTSAB? Why should they learn advanced maths, the little potential bigots?

No @ColleenDonaghy , it reeks of girls and boys of all colours being told something isn't for them unless they support gender ideoology. Children attending the club would be required to divulge their views on gender ideology before they were perhaps ready.

I could see you were keen to use the white male privilege card, but on this occasion is was poorly played.

Girls only sports clubs don't exist to protect girls from sexism elsewhere. They exist to give girls a chance to compete and win, which wouldn't be possible in a mixed sex environment.

And yes, victim narrative.

By which I mean the belief in the trans community that trans people are hated, persecuted, not welcome in other spaces, that they will be bullied everywhere they go.

Doesn't setting up a specific club where those things will not be allowed to happen reinforce that narrative? And suggest that nothing will be done to combat it outside the safe little enclave of this one specific club?

I'll say it again. All clubs should be safe and welcoming for LGBTQ+ students. For the avoidance of doubt this means that male sports teams should be safe and welcoming for trans girls/women and AMAB non binary people, and female sports should be safe and welcoming for trans boys/men and AFAB non binary people. And I support additional mixed sports groups for anyone who doesn't feel comfortable with that. All other clubs should be inclusive and welcoming of everyone and all students should be allies of all students from minority groups.

I work in sport specifically setting up clubs for underrepresented groups and can confirm this is indeed legal and sadly necessary. I rather like their wording - for those that are LGBTQ+ or supportive of. Not seeing the problem with your dc joining TBH unless he fear reprisals from outsiders which is exactly why certain groups need a safe space to play sport in the first place! Yes we should all feel welcome and included in all activities but that's just not how the world works sadly.