Ways to lessen the risk of rape

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789f07e8-49aa-11ee-ae7e-1fff6c8e0528?shareToken=0d97e81f86763060709b5a5106cc7a9b

The idea that any form of precautionary behaviour from women is akin to 'victim blaming' seems like madness to me. A very sensible column from K Stock.

'Someone needs to tell young women what sort of world they live in and how best to defend themselves accordingly — imperfect certainly, but still better than nothing. Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t always the same thing as telling women that if they don’t listen to sensible advice, they have no right to complain about whatever happens next.'

Another detail that I'd never considered is how insulting it is to suggest that it's mothers' responsibility to 'teach sons not to rape'.

Or "why didn't she use her Brazilian ju-jujitsu skills" is used to blame her. ReginaRegina has ignored utterly what I said about a mother not wanting to wake het children during a rape in case they witness it.

The onus is on men not to rape. A woman learning martial arts gives her a false sense of security that she is now safe when she in fact isn't. It also monetises women's fear of rape when we pay for classes we wouldn't otherwise have taken because someone has told us that we will be safe if we take them. And we may be molested by the teachers, who are trained fighters and will be hard to fight off. Remind me again what proportion of martial arts instructors are men?

The onus I'd on men not to rape

No shit, Sherlock.

And heaven forfend any woman should enjoy a "false sense if security". Only a sense of abject fear becomes a woman. Let us never forget that we victims. Fear feminism at its finest.

No women shouldn't live in abject fear because the type of rape this protects women from is a small percentage and the risk is small anyway. The onus should not be put on women to prevent rape. There are safe guidelines that both women and men should follow to keep themselves safe but stop telling women that if they just try harder they can stop themselves being raped.

If you must insist on making women and girls responsible for avoiding rapes, advice that might work would be "don't marry, don't date, don't allow men into your home, and don't enter a man's home". But no one bar the odd lesbian separatist ever suggests that, because "family" under patriarchy is predicted on women marrying men and doing not only the childrearing but the "wife work" as well

Wouldn't it be great if at least for every article and off the cuff remark about what women should do to avoid rape, there were the same number of articles comments telling men not to rape.

And the worrying part of this is know that men (in most instances) have grown up in a family where there is a mother, and maybe sisters, but somehow despite that they still turn out to be predatory or opportunistic rapists.

Unless and until being found to be a rapist is considered by men to be the worst thing ever nothing will change.

There is something grotesque about the fact that articles and talks are still about "how women can stay safe".

How many have you actually been attacked?

There is data on stranger rape, which if memory serves is around 14%. Out of those some will be what you are asking about.

The irony is, that for decades, society, MSM, police , all the advice etc. has only been focused on that minority .🤫

that for decades, society, MSM, police , all the advice etc. has only been focused on that minority. 🤫

The people giving the advice don't actually want to stop rape, they want to give men an excuse to blame their victims. The focus on the minority of cases whilst ignoring the majority is the proof of this.

If they wanted to actually stop rapes, a) they'd focus on educating men and boys and b) the advice to women and girls would be based on the assumption that an attacker is very likely to be someone you know and will probably be your boyfriend.

If they wanted to actually stop rapes, a) they'd focus on educating men and boys
^^^^^^

I have 3 sons.
I have NEVER had the
'Don't rape women ' conversations
None of them have raped anyone.
I did love them unconditionally and taught them kindness and consideration.

Surely until people - men and women across the board , start being decent human beings and treating their children with love - the vicious circle continues.

How can you be so sure? No offence to your boys, they're probably lovely lads, but how can you possibly know?

I just don't get how people think that rapes will stop when boys are taught better... Really? I'm sure some rapes could be prevented by better education but what about the rapists that are mentally unstable, sadists, psychopaths ( to name a few examples). They are not a matter of education.

I love Julie Bindel but I think the rhetoric of 'men just need to stop raping' as an impossibility.

I think better conviction and sentencing would make a huge difference to all of the above problems: it would make victims feel justified (and not to blame), it would prevent some, and all the men that could not be prevented would be locked away from repeat offending.

There’s an entire museum exhibition dedicated to “what I was wearing”

Tackling wider misogyny would help stop rape. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/29/research-reveals-rapes-and-assaults-admitted-to-by-male-uk-students

[The study] identified a strong association between toxic masculinity and sexual violence, with those [men] who reported committing offences also admitting to misogynistic views, such as believing that women who get drunk are to blame if they get raped, and having sadistic sexual fantasies about raping or torturing women.

Such views and fantasies were not held by participants who did not report sexual misconduct and violence, the study noted.

Being taught an hour of self-defense in my teens didn't protect eight-year-old me from sexual assault, nor it protect 19 yo me from failing to recognise red flags on a date, nor did it protect 21 yo me from moving in with someone who would go on to rape me. So I'd argue that "teaching the woman" is failing and we can't make it worse by trying "teaching the men". Especially as men and boys have raped babies and pre-teens. Please explain to me how kali/krav maga/BJJ would help a small girl.

I did remember that after I posted, and went looking! In fact at least one other place has used the same concept. It's eye-opening, thoroughly depressing too.

Of course, there could be literally one outfit officially designated "women who wear this do not consent to sex" and you just know anyone who wore it would be targeted. The idea that what you wear has any bearing on whether you consent to sex (and who with) is ludicrous.

If what we wore was the problem, women wouldn't be raped in burkas. Yet they are. Yet I've only once been sexually harassed at the pool (as a child, paedophiles are awful) and never whilst im a bikini.

All the advice about keeping yourself safe is fine, and good, and needs to be remembered, but it’s a bit like the advice about how to keep safe when driving, you know, keep your brakes and tyres well maintained, stick to the speed limit, use your missions, don’t drink and drive etc etc, but that doesn’t keep you safe from the drugged up boy racer showing off to his friends at eighty mph on the wrong side of the road.

By all means keep yourself safe, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that women are raped because some men think it is ok to rape. I don’t know why.

It angers me that both the burden of safety, and very often the burden of proof is automatically shifted onto womens shoulders rather then being seen as the responsibility of rapists and the other men who in conversation and attitude often condone violence against women even if it is something they wouldn’t do themselves.

How is that relevant?

What percentage of posters that talk about femicide have been murdered?

Because there's a big difference between what you think you'd do (with or without fighting skills and training )and what your brain actually allows you to do when you're in that situation.

TammyJones · 14/09/2023 19:24

If they wanted to actually stop rapes, a) they'd focus on educating men and boys
^^

I have 3 sons.
I have NEVER had the
'Don't rape women ' conversations
None of them have raped anyone.
None of them have raped anyone.

Surely until people - men and women across the board , start being decent human beings and treating their children with love - the vicious circle continues.

I have four mostly adult children , and three sons who are each very different and I adore. I have had the conversations with them. We have discussed when they were in primary school, and again when in secondary. Conversations were about the prevalence of rape, and sometimes about common scenarios where women are raped, such as when on a date, and by people who they trusted. I have also had the “what if’s “ conversation with my sons, such as , what if a young woman changes her mind, what if a young woman who was too drunk to consent and say no.

Haha yes! But what about the men?!!!! 😒. I had 2 men within a few days, when i said i worked at womens aid, 1st said, straight away, what is there for men? 😡. 2nd one started to say "can i ask 1 thing...." i put my finger up, 'would it be what is there for men" ...yes it was. Typical entitled crap.
I said there is something for men. "Men suffer with domestic violence from women" he said.
"Some men do" said i lol...but " 93% of murder in the home is perpetrated by men onto women, the 7% left over, 70% of that 7% is committed by a woman who has been subjected to years of abuse from a man "
He didn't say much after that but was very cagey lol

This was my first thought too and I think the KS article is great.

Young people should be helped to equip themselves for this world.
My mother's biggest fears when we were teenagers was daughters being sexually assaulted and sons being beaten to a pulp or stabbed.

I thought I'd fight. I froze, every time. Only those who've not been sexually assaulted don't realise this.

Exactly - women should never underestimate the physical strength of men. I fought but it was like fighting a statue, he held me so easily and he wasn't that much bigger than me. All of these arguments ignore the reality that women walk around freely because men allow them to do so. Don't kid yourselves that men aren't just as aware of their power to hold the threat of sexual violence over women, than women are conscious and afraid of it. That's what is so wrong about the society we live in - that there is even a debate that rape is anything but an act of violence and dominance. Why else would it be so prevalent in MALE prisons??

There is a significant difference between the threat of sexual violence and that of merely physical violence. Sexual violence involves penetration whereas a punch to the face does not. It's naïve or dismissive to pretend these actions are the same
.