Ways to lessen the risk of rape

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789f07e8-49aa-11ee-ae7e-1fff6c8e0528?shareToken=0d97e81f86763060709b5a5106cc7a9b

The idea that any form of precautionary behaviour from women is akin to 'victim blaming' seems like madness to me. A very sensible column from K Stock.

'Someone needs to tell young women what sort of world they live in and how best to defend themselves accordingly — imperfect certainly, but still better than nothing. Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t always the same thing as telling women that if they don’t listen to sensible advice, they have no right to complain about whatever happens next.'

Another detail that I'd never considered is how insulting it is to suggest that it's mothers' responsibility to 'teach sons not to rape'.

An interview with the second-wave feminist - Susan Brownmiller - who first taught us that rape is about power and patriarchy and hatred of women.

https://veteranfeministsofamerica.org/interview-susan-brownmiller/

I think throwing your hands up and saying “there’s nothing I can do to avoid assault because it’s all down to men to stop doing it” is actually completely disempowering. I am teaching my daughters:

• how to judge character (ie avoid marrying a rapist)
• how to avoid being vulnerable (ie avoid getting drunk with randoms)
• martial arts

None of the above make you invincible, but they stop you going through life feeling afraid.

I think all people should follow this advice about personal safety, but when we're specifically talking about rape it is a myth that rapes are usually done by an attacker in an alley (although these kind of terrifying and shocking attacks do make the news more) they are much more likely to be done by someone the woman knows - a partner, part of her social circle at a party, someone she's been on a date or two with or an ex partner.

Women do rely heavily though on the social contract/law enforcement for their safety. You only have to look at what happens when these break down (eg war) to see this.

@Bananaanaana very true

Ways of reducing risk of rape….teach men not to rape.

You're most likely to get raped by someone you know, so the only thing women can do is not have dads, brothers, uncles, male cousins, husbands, male friends, male co-workers.

And it is victim-blaming to say women should take precautions. A, because it doesn't work (see above), and B, the natural throughline from suggesting women should take precautions is 'why on earth didn't you take precautions'.

Upsetting to see this on a feminism board.

Exactly. Very well put.

I'm not even sure how much risk it reduces, having worked in a rape support centre.

@BorrowedThyme @cheezncrackers

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2022#main-points

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwalesoverview/november2022#:~:text=The%20CSEW%20estimated%202.4%20million,women%20and%203.0%25%20men).

Women are more likely to be raped than men

Women are more likely to be domestic abuse victims

Ninety percent of all violent offenders are male

How to prevent women being raped is a valid talking point

Bog off with your "Whataboutery"

On three occasions I can think of - thankGod I was lucky enough that it didn't progress past assault - it was merely being in possession of female biology that a male wanted to make use of, and the male or males in question noting that there was no one else around to see what they were doing.

Women need this advice. And it is ok to talk just about women, women's lives, women's experience. It's not sinful to not include men. Who was that writer of books who commented that when she wrote about male rape she got nothing but support but when she wrote about women's experience of rape she got endless whataboutery, anger and blame that she'd focused only on the unimportant sex?

As rapes are most common among people that know each other and perhaps have some kind of romantic connection or history, education on consent is essential for both boys and girls in an age appropriate way before school. My son will be learning from when he is a toddler onwards to look at his playmate's face to see if they are enjoying what he is doing or not and to ask them if they want a hug or kiss and that he doesn't have to touch people to greet them (but he does need to greet them with a wave or blow a kiss or using his words)

The setting boundaries song is a good one too!

There is a fine line between victim blaming: but why were you wearing a lacy corset and hotpants on a hot summer day to the pub?

And: take reasonable steps for your personal safety including not walking around crowded tourist areas with your phone in your hand etc etc

Same as if your house is burgled - the insurance take a dimmer view of you not having locked the door and closed the windows, than if you'd done those things. Or if your car window is smashed and expensive electronic equipment that was clearly visible on the back seat is stolen - you are unlikely to get a pay out for that. So careful dressing, not drinking too much and so on are good advice. But they are not a reason that you were raped/attacked.

i think some of the problem these days is going to be in giving advice like "don't get undressed where men are around"

I have been assaulted 3 times. Never on those occasions have I been indulging in any behaviour considered risky. I was at home with my boyfriend, at a party with trusted friends, and once with someone I thought cared about me.

tell me, how could my behaviour have stopped these men?

I think that’s only part of the solution though @Soubriquet. Certainly social control of men’s behaviour can prevent a lot of rape. Some can be prevented by women being wary of men and learning to defend themselves. You’ll never prevent all rape unfortunately.

I don't disagree with KS but it doesn't help the self-blame that comes with surviving rape.

Rape survivors reading this article may now think 'what did I do wrong? What could I have done differently? 'Could I have avoided being raped? How would my life be different if I wasn't raped?'

I don't know how helpful it is for rape survivors to have these thoughts. Being offered the benefit of hindsight when it's already happened.

but I'll add my voice to the others: on the occasions that i have been attacked by men i hanven't been "indulging in risky behaviours" outside of possessing a female sexed body (for want of a better phrase)

I think the lessons that we need to learn and teach are around boundaries, and not being afraid to look like the party pooper.

Same 😞

I am teaching my kids to have (what I see as) a healthy wariness of all men of unproven character. This includes relatives and friends. I’m not saying this approach is infallible or it’s anyone’s fault if it fails, I just think it’s better than nothing. Also teaching them to shout and physically defend themselves, which is actually really hard if you are naturally quiet and people-pleasing.

Yeah I have to agree. I was sexually abused by my own father from the age of 3, and articles like this just make me feel like I should have done something different, if I’d behaved differently, maybe it wouldn’t have happened - which is already a thought I torture myself with, as I’m sure many victims of sex crimes do.

Yes they are. This is true. However, the vast majority of men are assaulted by other men so your point, in this case, is moot

My risky behaviour was sleeping. Like any mammal does.

Yes, I would add the risks of drinking excessively. And learning to spot the red flags in abusive men.

Basically I will do my best to keep my daughter safe, whether or not that accords with academic and philosophical theories.

I've taught all my DC about how to stay safe -well really reduce public risks - have a plan to get home, keep money safe and have an emergency fund to get a taxi if all else fails - to be aware of surrounding, watch their drinks - drink in moderation and try and avoid getting drunk, not leave their drinks - actually even gave my DS a personal alarm as well.

It won't protect them from any one with serious intent to harm them - might help minimise risk of opportunistic would be attackers - like most burglars deterrents you're moving the problem to others not really stopping it.

They face different likelihood of risks - DS is stronger and less likely to be sexually assaulted/raped then girls but it sadly not a zero risk - but it is mostly male relatives who ended up in hospital attacked ( DH relatives have height Ds and Dh doesn't it attracts the vicious drunk show offs) .

What would actually help DD or even me and older female relatives would be more police on streets, more prosecutions and convictions and longer sentences for sexual attacks - perhaps better lighting (some area now cut lighting in early hours to safe money and fuck shift workers) and street designs most of which doesn't seem to be on anyones agenda and is out of my control.

I love all my DC and want them all safe - I think that fairly standard for most parents TBH and you do what you can thought frankly it's mostly out of your control.

Though do admit some frustration yesterday - travel planning app kept insisted late at night route back was possible but included ten minute walk though a deserted heavily wooded no lights park. I wouldn't want teen DS on that route - even FIL now in 70s wouldn't I think take it - I think only DH "might" be okay with it - wouldn't let me pick a different busier stop though. Reminds me of I think of Barcelona who made streets safer for women and found everyone was happier.

Everyone needs to learn the best way to keep themselves as safe as they can. Women and men and children. Young people shouldn't swim in reservoirs in hot weather. Some do and sometimes it ends in tragedy. It isn't victim blaming to warn of the dangers.

I think she's right to make the distinction between saying "If you do X, you are more likely to be raped" and saying "If you do X, it's your own fault if you get raped." Obviously the fault lies all with the men.

I think most of us who are mothers of daughters will have given them advice on protecting themselves at some point. For example, I always told my daughter never to leave a drink unguarded - if she went to the toilet, take the drink with her. Similarly I advised her, if she got very drunk, to make sure she was with friends who would take care of her. If you go on a first date, make sure you meet in a public place, and so on.

But it's hard. A lot of advice is useless against a man set on rape. Many rapes happen in the context of an existing relationship. Or are committed by adults you trust (teachers, doctors etc.) What can you do about that?

I also think advice about clothing is largely pointless. Rapists don't particularly target women or girls with short skirts - they will target anyone. Perhaps wearing heels does disadvantage you, in that you're less likely to be able to run away, especially if drunk.

The one thing that is clear is that rapists target women and girls who are vulnerable. So women in care homes, in hospitals, women with learning disabilities or physical disabilities, girls who are in care homes or foster care who are desperate for affection and/or won't be taken seriously by police.

I believe that the most, probably the only, effective way of stopping rape is to take it seriously as a society. Make sure that reported rapists are charged. Find a way of increasing the numbers found guilty. Ensure that those who are found guilty are given lengthy prison sentences. Otherwise it will keep on happening.