Ways to lessen the risk of rape

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789f07e8-49aa-11ee-ae7e-1fff6c8e0528?shareToken=0d97e81f86763060709b5a5106cc7a9b

The idea that any form of precautionary behaviour from women is akin to 'victim blaming' seems like madness to me. A very sensible column from K Stock.

'Someone needs to tell young women what sort of world they live in and how best to defend themselves accordingly — imperfect certainly, but still better than nothing. Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t always the same thing as telling women that if they don’t listen to sensible advice, they have no right to complain about whatever happens next.'

Another detail that I'd never considered is how insulting it is to suggest that it's mothers' responsibility to 'teach sons not to rape'.

For sure there are mitigations but these are only relevant to certain situations.

'Don't be out alone at night' works for an occasional night out when you can share a taxi with your friends and factor it into your plans.

Far less useful if your shift means you are walking too/from work at 3am. A taxi every time is going to make serious inroads into what is already likely a low income.

There is always context and nuance to decisions.

I've seen advice on here to avoid going out alone when it dark - utterly impractical - work getting kids to school to and from activities all required me to do that in winter and being none driver usually by walking.

Even DC as soon as they started secondary knew walking down canal in daylight with friends was fine but in winter and dark night they should stick to the roads with people, cars and lights.

These precautions do limit our freedoms more than men. I think it is just a fact of life that women are less free than men. This can be mitigated by society but I don’t think we’ll ever eliminate the difference. Overall it will probably always be better to be a man - you are taller, stronger, more free.

"If you avoid getting drunk and losing your senses, you might also avoid running into certain problems, because then you find the wolf.”

Actually the best feminist response is "no shit Sherlock and thanks for mansplaining". When a bloke says that it's exactly victim shaming plus minimising the real problem.

Women don't need to get drunk and lose their senses. Who would have thought that being a bloody good footballer and winning a world cup would "find the wolf"?

I think there has been obfuscation in recent times of some pretty cogent facts, partly by some well meant but misguided attempts to try and fix issues using theories about how things 'ought' to be.

Women are more often victims of rape, almost all rape is committed by men, a proportion of men are rapists. Men are stronger than women and women have added vulnerabilities - namely the risk of unwanted pregnancy.

All of these are things that I was perhaps vaguely aware of but not really fully conscious of before I discovered rad fem thinking. They were cast as things that we shouldn't mention - instead, we should focus on women's agency and abilities.

I do think that I could have mitigated risks had I been better informed.

I disagree with your last assertion, though. I am very happy being a woman; I don't think it's 'better' to be a man, just completely different. There are good and bad aspects to both sexes.

These precautions do limit our freedoms more than men. I think it is just a fact of life that women are less free BECAUSE OF men.

...men are more likely to be assaulted than women

Only if they're involved in criminal activity. Take criminals out of the equation and men are very UNLIKELY to be victims of assault.

Lies, damn lies and statistics...

Oh, really? That's interesting; not a clarification I'd heard before.

Yes the comparison with men and assault is completely different, because men are largely not assaulted when going about their normal lives, unless their normal lives involve being in a gang or brawling in pubs. Violence against women is a sort of terrorism, because it is ingrained in ordinary life and thus makes us all afraid.

A man is unlikely to assault another man (unless his victim is incapacitated or the assailant is overwhelmingly armed) because of the risk to himself. Boys learn this early on in playground fights.

Women by virtue of physiology are automatically more vulnerable therefore a male assailant stands a good chance of success without risk to himself.

Chuck in our socialisation to appease and please and we are stuffed.

It is interesting how angry some men become when they feel vulnerable eg through frailty. It's not uncommon for them to lash out (but only at people who are even more vulnerable than them).

In our local city a lot of attacks happen when clubs empty and one male in a group decides another in another group looked at him in a certain way. Some of those attacked are big lads. I actually think there’s ‘kudos’ in being seen to take them on.

Oh, really? That's interesting; not a clarification I'd heard before.

I can't find them because of MN's re-org but there have been FWR discussions before about this in the context of homicide. Even when the method was the same (e.g., knife) the setting (e.g., home v. elsewhere) and context (domestic versus drugs transaction) were different. So, I don't know, but it feels accurate that it would involve violence up to but short of homicide.

Female homicide victims were most likely to be killed in or around a house or dwelling while male victims were most likely to be killed in public places

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/march2022

Men shouldn't rape but they do. You can make yourself an easy target or you can use common sense.

A man is unlikely to assault another man (unless his victim is incapacitated or the assailant is overwhelmingly armed) because of the risk to himself. Boys learn this early on in playground fights.

Women by virtue of physiology are automatically more vulnerable therefore a male assailant stands a good chance of success without risk to himself.

Sorry but this just isn't true. The statistics clearly show that plenty of men will attack another man.

It's not the same as domestic violence and these men want to fight other men rather than women. Beating up a woman doesn't lead to hard man status and rapists/woman beaters etc tend to get a very hard time in prison.

If this is true then why are so many gay men beaten up? Are they all criminals?

They're part of a unique paradox whereby they're responsible for the violence visited upon them and simultaneously a victim and offender by proxy. Because as we're told, all men are collectively responsible for male violence.

Is there a reason why we are centring men... AGAIN?

When it comes to preventing rape its time men were centred and the onus was put on them to stop raping and to monitor their fellow men to prevent them raping. Put the responsibility for preventing rape where it belongs.

I agree with Kathleen Stock.

Telling people how to avoid burglaries - always lock your doors, don't leave valuables on display, etc - is in no way victim blaming If somebody leaves their door unlocked and they get burgled, this does not make the burglar any less of a burglar.

There will always be burglars, and no amount of requesting burglars to stop will help with that. Therefore, it is important to educate people to help them keep safe. This is exactly the same with rapists: they aren't going to stop just by "educating" them that rape is wrong.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with arming women with the knowledge to avoid situations where rape is likely.

I'd start with:

• Rapists are common, around 3% - 6% of all men in the West.
• Most rapists know their victims - don't trust someone just because you know him.
• Rapists may say things that like "do you want to come to mine?" without explicitly mentioning sex, yet take accepting this offer as definite consent to sex.
• Rapists believe that consent cannot be revoked, and any belief that you consented (whether true or not) means they are entitled to sex.
• Rapists get angry when "denied".
• Many rapists believe that unless there is an explicit and vociferous no, consent is given.
• Getting drunk makes you a huge target.
• Being stuck in a room or building with a male/males makes you an easy target.
• Carry a personal alarm.
• Set up the emergency call feature on your phone.
• Avoid going out after dark or early in the morning.
• Always let someone know where you're going
• Preferably travel in groups.
• Beware of tricks: rapists pretending to need assistance (eg, broken down car to lure you over); lying in the road pretending to be injured; alerting you to something wrong with your care to make you pull over etc

Avoid going out after dark or early in the morning.

So I can't pick my kids up from school in winter, or go to/leave my office? This is a huge adjustment to my life that essentially says I should stay in my own home after 5pm.

Can I ask what you have based this on - is there any data on time of attack?

And you're safer walking home alone at 3am then accepting a lift from the nice helpful bloke.

I wish Kathleen the best of luck with advising her DD.

Lists like this is the problem I have with this subject. Any discussion of providing women with information (fine so long as it’s factual) moves seamlessly into issuing instructions. This really isn’t fine and it’s a major point of difference in how society treats men and women.

A number of the things on that list are not no-brainers like locking your front door (or wearing a seatbelt). They’re quite significant restrictions and this is one of the reasons comparing sexual violence to burglary and theft doesn’t work.

I haven’t read the whole thing but I agree that alcohol makes you vulnerable and can put a target on your back for anything I suppose. When you’re tipsy, your decision making is altered. When you get to the stage that you’re falling over, getting paralytic, losing keys/phone etc then you’ll find it difficult to protect yourself if someone is around and trying to take advantage. There isn’t a solution aside from staying alert, which might mean reducing alcohol intake. But that’s not to say drinking means you deserve rape.

• *Rapists may say things that like "do you want to come to mine?" without explicitly mentioning sex, yet take accepting this offer as definite consent to sex.
• Rapists believe that consent cannot be revoked, and any belief that you consented (whether true or not) means they are entitled to sex.
• Rapists get angry when "denied".*

So if they say 'do you want to come to mine', you can't say 'yes', but if you say 'no' they'll get angry, and might form some mad belief that you have consented to sex.

So you just need to be in a position where a rapist can't talk to you or approach you. That rules out public transport, shopping, going out nearly anywhere in public.

While I really dislike the tone of it being a womens problem. Its actually not bad advice everyone is at risk of attacks and its good general advice.
Dont walk home alone, go with a friend or take a taxi etc
Don't leave a drink unattended etc

My advice on protecting yourself is to carry a knife and stab the bastards to death. I will go out fighting before I let it happen to me again because nobody believes you, the police mock you and everyone that you know will paint you as a demented lunatic. I've got your lunatic. My very best wishes go out to anyone on this thread who has been through this hell.