Ways to lessen the risk of rape

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789f07e8-49aa-11ee-ae7e-1fff6c8e0528?shareToken=0d97e81f86763060709b5a5106cc7a9b

The idea that any form of precautionary behaviour from women is akin to 'victim blaming' seems like madness to me. A very sensible column from K Stock.

'Someone needs to tell young women what sort of world they live in and how best to defend themselves accordingly — imperfect certainly, but still better than nothing. Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t always the same thing as telling women that if they don’t listen to sensible advice, they have no right to complain about whatever happens next.'

Another detail that I'd never considered is how insulting it is to suggest that it's mothers' responsibility to 'teach sons not to rape'.

Men also need to know how to avoid the danger of assault - men are more likely to be assaulted than women

Jeeps

Well that was quicker than expected.

@BorrowedThyme - this is a thread about women and girls.

Perhaps you could start another thread if you want to discuss men on men violence.

But it's true - the most common victims of assault are men (perpetrated by other men). I think it's good advice and that Kathleen Stock is a very sensible woman. We all, male and female, need to know how best to avoid being the victim of an attack - whether sexual in nature or physical violence. The way we dress, the way we act, the situations we put ourselves in - all can make us more likely to be a victim of assault. That's not victim blaming, that's common sense.

@cheezncrackers utter bollocks. Let's stop with the victim blaming shall we?

This is a male problem. Shifting the focus onto women is just playing into the hands of the misogynists.

The Times article is about rape - the rape of women by men, and ways to lessen the risk. Why are you making this a thread about men assaulting men?

It's like starting a thread about how expensive owning a dog is, and the first post being "well cats are expensive too!".

What is utter bollocks @KitchenSinkLlama? Nothing I said is utter bollocks. You can look out for yourself and make yourself less likely to be a victim. If you become a victim then the person who attacks you is to blame for that, but there are actions that we can all take to make us less likely to be attacked.

Irrelevant. This is a thread about rape.

Vast majority of victims are female.

And of course virtually all perps are male.

This is specifically about rape. Do you have statistics to show men are more likely to be raped?

Off the top of my head 80 something percent of victims of sexual assault are women and girls.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

1 in 4 women
1 in 18 men

Men are perfectly capable of discussing that, this is a feminism board.

But that’s not what the article is about.

Agree with the dog/cat food analogy 🤦‍♀️

Having personal experience makes this hard to talk about ....but I remain unconvinced about clothing being part of it. Hasn't there been some sort of project documenting what women were actually wearing? Personally I was in a tracksuit both times. But I was exceedingly vulnerable in ways which would have been obvious to predatory men, regardless of non-provocative clothing. I think I was targeted for that, and of course for being female, and for being young.

I absolutely see it as my life's work prevent my children ever having that experience too from either victim or perpetrator stance. The responsibility lies with our misogynist society though.

I don't like it but not sure I can properly put into words why, it's minimising things. Yes it would reduce risks but only by a tiny amount because its not dealing with the actual issues. It's basically saying make yourself as inconspicuous as possible so someone else is selected instead.

“Rape is one of the most terrible crimes on earth and it happens every few minutes. The problem with groups who deal with rape is that they try to educate women about how to defend themselves. What really needs to be done is teaching men not to rape. Go to the source and start there.”
― Kurt Cobain

I agree. While no-one is to blame for the actions of others, and no style of dress means you're asking for anything, it is not victim blaming to advise people to take sensible precautions. Lock your door, don't wander home alone through dark streets, watch out for your friends, don't drink to excess. This isn't rape-specific or woman-specific either, it's just good sense.

Asking someone "why didn't you do X, Y, or Z, what were you thinking??" after they're the victim of a crime is victim blaming, however.

To be fair to cheezncrackers, Kathleen Stock in her article talks about advising her sons on avoiding assaults from other males. I appreciate that the OP wants to keep the discussion focused on rape, but the article does include other points.

Agree with RavingStone that it isn’t about what you’re wearing.

It’s sensible to be aware that predators are out there and that predators will likely target a victim in a situation which the predator thinks will make it easier for them to attack. But in sensibly adopting an “avoiding being easiest to pick off” approach it’s important to remember that i) this is also an “attack some other woman, not me” strategy and ii) the only thing that keeps you safe from rape is not being in the presence of a rapist.

I would have liked Stock to have applied some of her analytical thinking to this:

“There seems to be no doubt that many people blame some rape victims for what happens to them, irrationally. “

There are writers that have addressed why society finds it easier to sympathise with perpetrators then victims. Perhaps that could be a future topic for her.

Having said all that, I suspect that Kathleen is coming at this from a cancel culture / misrepresentation of speakers’ statements angle (understandably due to her career experience). Rather than from a perspective of campaigning against VAWG.

How not to be raped according to society: Stay indoors, never go out.
Put bars on your doors and windows, wear a burka.
Sorry that doesn't work, women still get raped, old ladies get raped. Women get raped by close relatives and husbands.
Men are the problem here.

Yeah, but in both cases, it’s MEN doing the violence.

And the reasons for and results of men being assaulted are very different. Men don’t get publicly shamed and have their entire private and intimate life discussed in public when they report a violent assault.

That’s a very good point:

“And the reasons for and results of men being assaulted are very different. Men don’t get publicly shamed and have their entire private and intimate life discussed in public when they report a violent assault.”

So? This is specifically a conversation about Kathleen Stock's article.

Feel free to a) barge onto any men's conversation about violence against men and bleat about women being victims too and b) start a conversation elsewhere about male violence against men.

I don't know. It's a grey area. There's a lovely park near where I live and on hot summer days the gate is often left open till very late, usually far past the point that the sun has gone down. At that point there's hardly anyone in it and it's transformed by restful shadows. You know the nice part of the night when it's still warm? I yearn to walk through it. It beckons. I don't. I did once and was tense and cursing myself the whole time. What would I do if a man was lurking in the shadows? Who would hear me scream? Who would help me? If I was raped and survived, who would accept that I was just going for an innocent stroll in the night and not an intentional liaison?

Why should I be beleaguered with these hypothetical scenarios when taking a walk? Why shouldn't I be able to walk wherever I want to? Why should my rights to freely walk where I wish be curtailed because some men feel they have the entitlement to hurt women?

I not sure where I stand on it. On the one hand I agree that making sensible precautions is important, on the other, I was assaulted at work and I would have said I was the least sexually provocative woman in the building. I was boring AF. Very what passes for modest. So I'm both practically minded and yet know attacks can't be solely motivated about clothing, or behaviour etc.

The only thing that made me vulnerable to being raped was having the misfortune to know and trust a rapist.