Ways to lessen the risk of rape

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/789f07e8-49aa-11ee-ae7e-1fff6c8e0528?shareToken=0d97e81f86763060709b5a5106cc7a9b

The idea that any form of precautionary behaviour from women is akin to 'victim blaming' seems like madness to me. A very sensible column from K Stock.

'Someone needs to tell young women what sort of world they live in and how best to defend themselves accordingly — imperfect certainly, but still better than nothing. Contrary to popular belief, this isn’t always the same thing as telling women that if they don’t listen to sensible advice, they have no right to complain about whatever happens next.'

Another detail that I'd never considered is how insulting it is to suggest that it's mothers' responsibility to 'teach sons not to rape'.

I’m not talking about measures that can 100% prevent you from ever being raped, I’m talking about things that could prevent some rapes in some circumstances. I think it is possible to do this, but depends on your attitude to risk and freedom whether those measures are worthwhile.

More prosecutions and convictions of rapists and sexual abusers is the most important factor. Currently rape is almost 'legal' as prosecutions and convictions are so low.

A study found 32% of men would commit rape if you don't actually use the term rape. Nearly a third of men. It is such an ingrained issue that the minor adaptations don't even scratch the surface. They don't get to the root of the matter which is that men believe they are entitled to sex. The measures you are talking about taking are mostly sensible for both sexes to avoid trouble, so don't teach your daughters to watch what you drink to avoid rape teach both sons and daughters to watch what they drink because it can affect judgement etc

^^ this

For the things that are outside a woman’s control @donkra she needs her family or community to protect her. For example, there’s plenty a mother could do to prevent her daughter becoming a victim of her step-father. Social services have a huge responsibility to protect girls in care by not allowing them out with unsuitable people.

FFS the best ways to ''lessen the risk of rape''?

How about:

-society and government finally making it clear to boys and men that violence against women is not acceptable and will have severe, legal consequences. The message should start in the home with parents educating their boys and in school.

-higher sentences and better conviction rates for rape

-zero tolerance for misogyny and sexism in daily life

-a serious look at porn producers getting away with routinely promoting content that features 'rough sex' and violence against women and selling it as the norm when it comes to what sex looks like

-no more victim blaming and suggestions that women are responsible for preventing men from raping them...

I am so sick of all this.

Rape is calculated violence. A man who rapes is not operating on some misunderstanding or lack of knowlege, imo. He is deliberately committing an act of violence, aggression and cruelty.

I actually disagree with this statement. I think that rape is often absolutely as you've put it here. But I also think a lot of rape, especially rape within relationships, is about entitlement. We hear a lot about porn culture for example and how boys as young as pre-teens are being exposed to pornography in which they're shown men forcing women or women saying no and being "convinced" otherwise.

I think we're all pretty unanimous on this thread that, for example, a woman wearing a short skirt is not "asking for it". But for a very very long time, and in many parts of the world and society, there are STILL lots and lots of people who think that a short skirt =will have sex with anyone=can't claim rape.

It's those ideas that we have to keep challenging.

We're never going to be able to stop all rape and all violence. But if we can stop even some of, I call that a good start.

Except you have no idea who the rapist is. You can stay in at night - but the rapist could be your housemate. You could get a taxi so you're not walking in a dark alleyway, but the rapist could be the taxi driver. You could stay away from strange men, but the rapist could be your uncle.

As a PP said, this is the illusion of safety. It makes you feel better to think you can protect yourself. But you can't!

No it won't prevent rape but I do think there are plenty of men who are rapists who don't perceive themselves as such. They live in a world where it is okay to take, touch and force sex onto someone else because they believe their wants are the only things which matter.

They would be shocked to hear their behaviour described as sexual assault and rape. Because, to them, they are entitled to whatever they want. To them a rapist is someone lurking in a dark alley.

So it starts with teaching young boys that they aren't allowed to take and touch simply because they are bigger and stronger.

With men it is getting the message across that 'You are what a rapist looks like'. Not some anonymous monster but a husband, a friend, that bloke in the pub you chat to.

Yes. I started teaching DS about consent when he was 2 - he was bigger and taller and stronger than the other children from day 1. I've had people look at me strangely when I've mentioned this.

But I've also had parents of girls, and teachers, comment at various times that DS is the one boy who not only doesn't take part in the boys-will-be-boys roughhousing and teasing of the girls, but will tell them to stop. His form tutor told me that one of the things she likes best about him is that he gently encourages some of the shyer girls to feel comfortable talking up in class and makes a point of stopping to listen and/or shushing the boys.

Doesn't mean he's never going to rape, but I really really hope we've done the work to make him understand that just because HE wants something, doesn't mean the girls have to agree.

The sad reality is that most women who are raped know the perpetrator(s) but a lot of advice is aimed at situations in which the rapist and woman are strangers or near strangers.

Sadly, as this thread shows, there are so many strategies adopted by women which help women reduce the risk of rape but, as we know from Sarah Everard, the risks are still there.

I heard a young woman being interviewed who said that she and her friends drank shots because so many of them had had their drinks spiked if they left a drink on a table or bar. That is something that has definitely changed from when I was young. I also think there is a different type of misogyny now. It's hard to explain but I think it is based on a sense of entitlement and has been accentuated by the availability of videos etc from 'influencers'. We also need to think about which groups of men have ignored the 'no means no' statement. Yesterday yet another footballer was accused of violence to an ex partner. I'd like to see efforts at using peer educators and ensuring that advice is as relevant as possible to women's lives today.

Vulnerability is the biggest risk factor for a woman being raped surely and this can take mnay forms - but ime it's mainly about being young and inexeprienced. We need to protect young girls better.

but that assumes that any of us can only do one thing at a time.

But we don't.
We try to mitigate things for ourselves, for sure (so not walking out late at night for eg) but there must also be campaigns to stop the rapes full stop. I don't think the execution of the "maaate" thing is good, but i think the idea behind it is solid.

So then we have

• women mitigating as much as possible without severely curtailing their freedoms
• men calling out other men

next we need men checking themselves too and what is left, what the dregs are, are the rapists. Some of whom might well be put off by their intended (opportunistic) victim walking with purpose with her keys in her hand and on the phone to someone who can hear what's going on and knows where she is. Some of those hearing "maaate" might think twice about what consent is.
etc etc

and it may well be that women second guess themselves after an attack - but the simple fact is: it is, was and never will be their fault. And the sooner everyone else takes that on board the better.

Much as it hurts some people to see these conversations, they still need to be had.

Yes. I'd like to see women try not to attack each other when talking about this subject, too.

It is emotive and affects just about all of us.

We need to be able to discuss it, voice doubts, ask questions.

Seems to me there are so many strands all bundled together. Dealing with CSA is not the same as dealing with DV is not the same as date rape is not stranger rape is not wartime rape.

Each and all of these need tackled. Probably in several different ways for each issue- Teach men about consent/tackle conviction rates and sentencing/share info on safety/provision of support services etc.

Apologies for not having read the whole thread - but is there any evidence to link rape with how a woman chooses to dress?

It seems to me that at the root of victim-blaming is the myth of the uncontrollable male libido (what my mother memorably called UUUUURges) and women’s responsibility to police it. And this is why male victims of male violence are not held accountable: male-on-male violence is the perpetrator’s fault, whereas the woman is complicit in male-on-female assaults through failure to avoid unleashing the man’s unrestrainable lust.
In order to draw the heat out of the debate, it needs to be generally understood that sexual assault and rape are crimes of violence and power, not desire.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus I have seen that study and can sadly believe that it is likely to reflect reality. I think though that the fact that 1/3 of men don’t commit rape tells us that there is something we can do to prevent it. Given the state of law enforcement in this country there must be factors other than the risk of prosecution that work.

indeed you may well be raped. But it isn't your fault. But it's the same as wearing a seatbelt, or locking your door. If i feel confident or sure that I've done what i can, i behave differently, more confidently. And yes, I'm sure that in some cases that meant another woman was a victim instead of me.

A thing that makes me boilingly angry, but it isn't my fault and it isn't her fault.

It's just one thing that women can do, it is not guaranteed to help at all.

Yes all that is true @dontjudgemeagain but as I said, I’m not expecting these measures to eliminate the risk completely. But I have to say, I am wary of taxi-drivers, housemates and even uncles. I assume that any of these could be rapists, particularly in relation to my tween daughters who are vulnerable. Louise Perry says women should avoid being alone with men they don’t 100% trust and sadly I agree with that. Again, not saying rape is ever the fault of anyone but the rapist or that being wary is complete protection. I come from a 100% pro woman perspective and I think we can’t rely on the police to protect us.

Better handling of reports by the authorities (yes, police officers, I'm looking at you) including the police, medical services, managers of clubs or places where it happens, the CPS.

I want better sentencing guidelines where a conviction for rape nearly always ends in a prison sentence and to go on the sex offenders register. For life where violence is shown.

I want better teaching and reinforcing of consent at all stages of children's lives, up to and including going to Uni. And for people who take jobs that put them in an authority position, like the police. I want them to be monitored constantly with better protections for whistleblowing. And a firm commitment that things will be handled efficiently and properly when the whistle does blow.

For organisations like the police to come down hard on the "boys will be boys it's only bantz" behaviour within their own cultures (not only the police, but that would be a good place to start) with annual appraisals including their behaviour and reports about them being looked at.

I want this to be the message: I. Believe. Her.

(for starters)

I agree with this. It’s not about victim blaming.
It‘s all very well to say „we need to teach boys not to rape“, of course we do, but none of us can teach all the boys out there.
I can teach my son, I can talk to my nephews or my son’s friends.
I can’t control the attitude of all the boys out there though, that’s why I‘ll have to also talk to my daughter and advise her how she can try to keep herself as safe as possible.
I wish I didn’t have to do that, I really do. But my wishes alone won’t change the world out there.

And I think if you take preventive measures and still get raped, that’s terrible, but not unexpected since nothing could eliminate the risk of rape.

I don't know of any research about this but I think people are strongly influenced by what happens in court. Two rugby players were accused of rape and were acquitted. During the trial, the defence counsel took out the knickers of the woman who had accused the men of raping her. Waving them in front of the jury, the QC (a woman) said they were the sort of knickers you would wear if you were looking for sex. Comments like that are so damaging and have a huge impact beyond a particular trial.

“I think though that the fact that 1/3 of men don’t commit rape.”

Sorry, I’m not clear. Are you saying that two thirds of men do commit rape? (That’s the implication of what you’ve written.) Or are you saying that it’s a “fact” that fewer than one in three men commit rape?

I don’t see how you can say that it’s a “fact”. It may be your belief. But how would you ever prove that fewer than one in three men commit rape? Based on the experiences described by women on this thread of being assaulted by husbands, partners, boyfriends and dates, one in three men having committed rape sounds plausible, sadly.

Employers can do a lot more. Not just paying lip service but actually doing things about:

• 'banter'
• lone workers
• lighting
• building design so employees/visitors/customers can't be trapped in areas

But the first thing is recognising the risk. Accepting that staff/visitors/customers are potentially rapists and sex abusers or potential victims. This isn't a 'someone else' responsibility, this is a 'me' responsibility.

• do I treat 'banter' as a disciplinary issue?
• do I make sure that no one is left alone finishing up even if this means the business is inconvenienced?
• do I make sure buildings and their surroundings are well lit?
• have I ensured there are no areas where a person could be trapped?

Comparing rape, or any physical assault for that matter, to leaving your front door unlocked and getting burgled is so fucking offensive that I don't even know how t convey it.