Is Australia worse than UK for 'woke' agenda

[Lizzypet]

Anyone here living in Aus? We lived there for 9yrs until 2016 and all of us except youngest child have citizenship. Considering possibly moving back at some point, and think I remember reading that the 'woke' situation is as bad as, or worse than here? I'm aware I'm being very generic in my description, and that a lot of people don't like the term Woke, but concerned about DC (ages 6 & 8) and what they might be exposed to in school, university etc. Grateful for any input. Thanks

I think Australia has really changed in the past 25 years or so and I don’t really understand why. The stereotypical Aussie larrrikin seems a distant memory.

The embrace of harsh Covid restrictions, John Pesuto’s treatment of Moira Deeming etc are things that I didn’t expect to see. It seems to have become a very conformist place and I’ve been really shocked to listen to urban Melbournites parroting “woke” mantras with no examination or discussion at all. I just haven’t found equivalent Londoners swallowing it all hook, line and sinker particularly when it comes to gender ideology.

Australia does have a very strong emphasis on fairness which I think the UK would do well to emulate in some respects and wow the healthcare in Oz is better.

Woke/Wokeism/Woksters - derive from several U.S orginated theories formulated on American university campuses: Intersectionalism with its hierarchies of oppressors and victims; Queer Theory ( from which 'gender identity' arises), and Critcal Race Theory ( white guilt/reparations)

Most wokesters know nothing about any the above - they merely repeat the mantras, and spend their time castigating others.

Your "colonialist" comments actually do pin point one of the main reasons for Australian wokeism. You are victims of the big bad enemy; those nasty, repressed colonists in the U.K - against which the downtrodden Aussie victims must prove their cultural and moral supremacy by championing supreme acts of wokeism.

As dictated by American cultural imperialism

Yes! American cultural colonisation is standard in the west, and has gripped the U.K too. It is interesting to note some of the worst offenders when it comes to wokeism, though, are ex colonies. I know the U.S was once a British colony - but its size and cultural power has since superseded.

English speaking country sharing similar cultural norms... omg the shock horror

IANAL, but I do not think there is any need to obtain exemptions.

The federal Sex Discrimination Act (linked in the other Australian themed thread) has as its clause 7D:

7D Special measures intended to achieve equality
(1) A person may take special measures for the purpose of achieving substantive equality between:
(a) men and women; or
(aa) people who have different sexual orientations; or
(ab) people who have different gender identities; or
(ac) people who are of intersex status and people who are not; or
(b) people who have different marital or relationship statuses; or
(c) women who are pregnant and people who are not pregnant; or
(d) women who are potentially pregnant and people who are not potentially pregnant; or
(e) women who are breastfeeding and people who are not breastfeeding; or
(f) people with family responsibilities and people without family responsibilities.
(2) A person does not discriminate against another person under section 5, 5A, 5B, 5C, 6, 7, 7AA or 7A by taking special measures authorised by subsection (1).
(3) A measure is to be treated as being taken for a purpose referred to in subsection (1) if it is taken:
(a) solely for that purpose; or
(b) for that purpose as well as other purposes, whether or not that purpose is the dominant or substantial one.
(4) This section does not authorise the taking, or further taking, of special measures for a purpose referred to in subsection (1) that is achieved

It would straightforward to establish that lesbians are disadvantaged and a measure to provide substantial equality would include events for the purpose of social support.

Even if that didn’t work, the organisations can use section 39

39 Voluntary bodies
Nothing in Division 1 or 2 renders it unlawful for a voluntary body to discriminate against a person, on the ground of the person’s sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status, marital or relationship status, pregnancy, breastfeeding or family responsibilities, in connection with:
(a) the admission of persons as members of the body; or
(b) the provision of benefits, facilities or services to members of the body.

so it is legal to have a voluntary body by lesbians, for lesbians. And a service could include an event. If a venue refused the booking, they would be the ones guilty of discrimination.

And federal law overrides state law so if anyone tried it on, the lesbian organisation would have resort to clause 11(3)

(3) This Act is not intended to exclude or limit the operation of a law of a State or Territory that furthers the objects of a relevant international instrument and is capable of operating concurrently with this Act.

So my take is that these organist don’t need an exemption, they should go ahead and let people try to shut them down, sue venues that cancel for discrimination on the grounds of sex and sexual orientation, and if the complainants try to use state law against then, use federal law and get the state law struck out. State law shouldn’t make illegal things that federal law explicitly allow.

Organist —> organisations

darn auto cucumber!

😭😭😭
That’s awful
And very unfair to eg Muslim women who used to be able to relax at women’s groups.

Turns out that the LRA made an application under federal law. https://humanrights.gov.au/our-work/legal/exemption-applications-under-sex-discrimination-act-1984-cth

Your "colonialist" comments actually do pin point one of the main reasons for Australian wokeism. You are victims of the big bad enemy; those nasty, repressed colonists in the U.K - against which the downtrodden Aussie victims must prove their cultural and moral supremacy by championing supreme acts of wokeism.

just pretend I put the eyeroll emoji here.

It is pretty much about all you can do morestranger.

There's lots of good women striking back at the wokies - Pauline Hanson, Moira Deeming & Kirralie Smith for example.

On the definition of "woke", I think the original meaning was "alert to racial injustice". If I was going to give a current definition, it would be something like "Obsessed with identity politics to the exclusion of all other issues, and viciously policing any dissent from current identity politics orthodoxy."

There's lots of good women striking back at the wokies - Pauline Hanson, Moira Deeming & Kirralie Smith for example.

Pauline Hanson? The woman who was against Asian Immigration in Australia. The woman who disrespected the Muslim community by wearing a Burqa into the Senate chamber of Parliament as a stunt. The woman who insists she’s Indigenous because she was born in Australia, and bails up two young Aboriginal high school girls to insist to them she is Indiginenous just like them - and does so on camera.

Her politics are toxic.

The word ‘woke’ has been co-opted from African American vernacular. It meant being aware of racial
prejudice and it’s negative effects.

Now, it’s used in a different way by people who can’t bear to have their beliefs questioned, in order to criticise and negate any opinion they don’t agree with.

It’s a new version of ‘politically correct’ but at least the far right (who coined the phrase) had the original thought to coin a phrase of their own, and not steal someone else’s.

The reason why the UK is unique in it's rejection of gender ideology is because of our strong history of feminism and our feminist icons. Canada, US, Aus, NZ, they don't have the same strength of connection to feminism that we do. Hence gender woo madness.

Pauline Hanson is not a good woman. It is possible to be gender critical without being racist or homophobic.

What an odd response on the Feminism - sex and gender discussion area of Mumsnet. Perhaps AIBU might suit you better?

YABU for saying 'Woke Agenda'.

this is an interesting view.

Considering Australia was a very early adopter of women being able to vote. And Germaine Greer certainly has had an impact on feminism and Sheila Jeffreys was a feminist voice from 1991 when she moved to Melbourne.

I also found that when I was here in the UK and found myself being sacked from my job here while pregnant that I had much less protection than I would have had in Australia.

I think there are other factors around this issue that have come into play in the UK than in Australia rather than 'Australia doesn't have the same connection to feminism.' For instance, it was only when my child moved to this country aged 10 that they started to hear comments such has 'you must be x sex because you like/do x'. That type of comment was never something we came across before. I mean there was the ridiculous comments of 'boys do x and girls do y' but never a direct 'you must be a boy/girl because you do/like this'.

I will never stop being amused by the people who actually colonised Australia (clue: you are the ones who live there), accusing the people who stayed in Europe - most of whom were piss-poor and certainly not living of the fat of Empire - of colonialism.

The same people are now trying to shout down legitimate democratic debate about the Voice - including the opinions of indigenous people who are sceptical.

Pauline Hanson is very divisive on many topics. I cannot agree with her on many issues, and I don't believe she necessarily comes at this issue from a feminist point of view (there might be some intersecting concepts).

She has been brave in her pursuit of this issue but with any of the legislation she suggests, I would be looking very closely at it to see how it will work in reality and just who it will impact.

Very interesting thread. I tried looking into the gender debate (admittedly not very hard) ahead of the local elections here in Sydney but couldn’t find much information on it. I also thought the promotion of ‘gender identity acceptance’ at work was due to it being an American-owned/based company, but now wonder…

Will have a look into the resources /previous thread posted here