Is Australia worse than UK for 'woke' agenda

[Lizzypet]

Anyone here living in Aus? We lived there for 9yrs until 2016 and all of us except youngest child have citizenship. Considering possibly moving back at some point, and think I remember reading that the 'woke' situation is as bad as, or worse than here? I'm aware I'm being very generic in my description, and that a lot of people don't like the term Woke, but concerned about DC (ages 6 & 8) and what they might be exposed to in school, university etc. Grateful for any input. Thanks

That men are "real women"?

I think it is. Two states have laws which deal with abortion that do not mention women!!!

I think i hear more about it on here than i see in practice in NSW. My son - 13 yrs- doesn't seem to hear anything at school. There are a lot of single sex schools and i'm not sure they are going single gender. I think a lot of australia give slip service to progressive ideas of all kinds and then acts very conservatively - the treatment of indigenous people is one example- lots of welcome to the country/voice etc but no real change. Australia seems very sports focused so would be interesting to see what happens there- imagine if a trans woman beat an Aussie swimming- i think you'd see a huge reaction

@Commonhousewitch I understand what you are saying and partially agree but I would phrase it as legally ‘progressive’ as the laws are in place but socially speaking, it doesn’t pass the pub test so we have less to deal with in day to day life.

Most people see ‘a bloke in a dress’ rather than a transgender person. Transgenderism does not have the same high profile here as in the UK.

But the real issue is that laws are in place favouring transgender rights over the rights of women so if it came down to it, women would be screwed.

Australia is well behind the UK in pushing back against the gender agenda. It’s just not on people’s radar yet. Self-Id has been snuck in almost all states, hiding behind gay rights and the be kind agenda. In fact, Australia’s first female prime minister betrayed women, gay people and children and changed sex to gender over a decade ago.

It is an interesting observation that historically conservative countries fall harder for the gender poison. Australia (particularly Tasmania where homosexuality was illegal until the 1990’s) Ireland and New Zealand spring to mind. Would make an interesting sociology study once this gender nonsense is kicked to the curb.

And all of our state human rights bodies are completely captured, unlike the EHRC.

For instance, It is unlawful for lesbians to have gathering in Tasmania unless men declaring a female gender identity are included.

The only “agenda” at my kids’ NSW schools - private if that makes a difference - was respect/tolerance/inclusion for everyone. I now have two in Uni, I’m sure you could find a group to suit any opinion there, I don’t hear about it. There are lots of things that are not great about Australia but having spent nearly 20 years living in England I am genuinely baffled at how anyone can think it’s a better place to raise kids. Mine thrived from the day they left.

Really? the prevalence of private schools is indicative of the huge class divide in Australian society - which is unacknowledged. There is also a strong religious agenda - religion in state schools is very subjective, often run by the churches and gives no understanding of the different religions/beliefs or any analytical discussions. whilst i am pleased that the reality doesn't necessarily correspond to the talk for transgender issues- i don't feel the same about other areas sexism, classism and indigenous rights where reality really needs to change

The first county to give women the vote (and in the 19th C, no less), and which legalised gay marriage before the UK is ‘conservative’?

I do not deny that NZ is one of the deepest down the gender rabbit hole - but socially conservative…?

To be honest (and as an Aussie living in Australia) I don't find us overly woke. I think we basically live by the adage "live and let live". We might joke around a bit but we don't care too much how other people live their lives as long as they're not harming others.

There's definitely a bit of racism and intolerance (more so in small towns and among super religious people, who are themselves a minority). Most people (especially in bigger cities) are supportive and tolerant.

As far as people pushing their agendas, there are vocal minorities and definitely the word TERF gets thrown around a bit online, but in real life as a woman I haven't felt the fear and frustration I see expressed on the feminism boards on Mumsnet. The biggest danger to women in Australia is still intimate partner violence rather than trans folk.

In Victoria at least we are very far down the gender rabbit hole. I think generally people are in the 'be kind' camp after a bit of a nasty same-sex marriage plebiscite. Our premier hosted drag queens in parliament house to support drag queen story hour. The opposition ( the conservative side) expelled a party member for attending the Let Women Speak event.
It's throughout schools in my area, I barely know a family with teenage children that doesn't have one of them identifying as trans. Even at my son's small primary school there are at least two children who identify as trans. Schools are encouraged to support students and don't need to inform parents.
It feels like there is a trans recognition event at work every month or two and it would be career suicide to be openly gender critical.

I agree @Marinettethebug with just about everything you say. This is my experience too.

But when it comes to racism, it’s in the cities as well - not as overt perhaps, but people do regularly experience microaggresions though.

Plus, as I’m pretty sure you’d agree, there is institutionalised racism also, that sees Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples being more likely to experience things like custodial sentences when white people who have committed the same crime are often just given a slap on the wrist.

Another example is racism in the police force - eg Aboriginal women often don’t feel safe to ring the police should their husbands be beating them - as very often it’s the woman who can be seen as the perpetrator because the husband is often white.

Also we see those awful and horrifically regular reports of white women murdered by their husbands and ex husbands, but very rarely does a First Nations woman’s death at the hands of a violent male ever make it to our newspapers/mainstream media. Plus deaths in custody. Just a few examples.

Racism is in all countries. I Just read a rather shocking news article about the Met police and racism.

In practice, no. I can’t say I’ve ever been asked for my pronouns, or had anyone else announce theirs.

I live in a major Australian city and it’s not shoved down your throat. But the assumption is that you believe TWAW, people are surprised when I (rarely) say what I think out loud. My kids are in school here but too young for the gender read person bullshit yet, and I’m nervous about it, honestly.
To the people who were being purposefully obtuse above, what did you think the OP was referring to when she said “woke” on a women’s rights and gender message board? Refugees? The climate?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/lesbian-group-seeks-human-rights-exemption-to-exclude-trans-women-from-melbourne-event-20230820-p5dxy8.html?btis

This in Melbourne today.

More radical feminists are coming out of the woodwork in my day-to-day life, though. Things are slowly, slowly moving forward. The national broadcaster recently aired a report that gave a bit of a voice to a few critics of affirmation-only care for children. That’s something.

You are absolutely right and I was perhaps too quick in my response to give detail to the topic. I was thinking mostly of the people in my own life - perhaps the people who weren't happy with more closed minded country associates moved to bigger cities? So I tend to associate city life with being more open minded and welcoming of difference.

Having said that, our treatment of First Nations people both at an institutional level and individual level is shameful. And I am sure there are many many micro aggressions and outright racism that I as a white woman wont ever experience.

Generally speaking though, I think "Aussie culture" means just not getting overly worked up about any issue.

This is new indeed, as is the balanced reporting.

I note this from the article

The Sex Discrimination Act contains permanent exemptions for charities, religious bodies, schools and volunteer organisations.

so, become a volunteer organisation with membership requirements. Problem dived.

the federal act also allows special measures to address discrimination.

these groups should just hold the event instead of asking for permission.

I'm amazed that the gender reassignment issue didn't die in the dust when transwomen competed in sport (and won everything) as sport is so popular and important in Australia.

It's actually 20 years this year since the Victorian civil courts revoked permission for lesbian groups to hold public events that exclude male people with gender identities.
I actually believe things are at long last getting better in Victoria because this is now being talked about more widely. Holly Lawford-Smith has been in the Australian, The Age, and on SBS (perhaps more I don't know of). Sheila Jeffries was saying all the same things in 2003, at Melbourne Uni too, but she didn't get the same coverage. Not for want of trying, either. This is not a criticism of Jeffries. But there's been a glacial shift and the conversation is changing at last.

Other States are different, and a mixed bag. And it's true that there is no longer any federal legisltion that protects us from discrimination on the basis of sex.

In terms of universities, I think the situation is similar to the UK. Melbourne Uni is treating Smith much better than Essex treated Stock, but the tertiary educators' union is just as useless.
In terms of schools and child transition I think things are bad, but it depends where you are and I'm not sure it's worse across the board than UK. I actually moved away from Melbourne, and my old profession, in part because I was disturbed by the response of my peak professional body and my union to experimental child transition practices.
But, as I said, I believe we're at the beginning of the beginning of things getting better!

What definition of 'woke' are you referring to? the Ron Desantis version where no one knows what he means? People just to seem to catch on to it without really knowing what it means. 😞

Oh that's amazing!
"Lesbians born female" is exactly how Lesfest phrased their application for exemption in 2003. I'm guessing it's many of the same women. I really hope they get what they're asking for.
These lesbian events all continue to be held in Victoria, but they have to be organised as private, invite only parties. Which means they can't advertise so they don't reach new arrivals, newly out women, and, most significantly, the next generation of lesbian women. They also can't apply for governmnt or council grants for festivals. And they can't raise public profile by being loudly and proudly women-loving-women in our community. It's disgusting, homophobic mysogyny that has forced these women to gather in secret as if being a lesbian female is a shameful thing, for two long decades now.

The dictionary definition of woke is very, very different to how the majority of woke people behave.
The best analogy is the Puritans. On the surface, they were all about being good. In reality, it was self-righteousness, denouncement and witch burning in the name of good.
Same thing here. People who call themselves 'woke' are usually terribly unwoke.

Woke

I looked up the current meaning:

”to term someone as hypocritical and think they are the 'enlightened' despite the fact that they are extremely close-minded and are unable to accept other people's criticism or different perspective. Especially considering the existence of echo chamber(media) that helped them to find other like minded individuals, thus, further solidifying their 'progressive' opinion.”

The original meaning is simply the past tense of ‘wake’

That there may have been other uses of the word in specific contexts and parts of the world is irrelevant. The above the the most common current use, ergo definition, of the word.