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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Comedy event cancelled at the Fringe because of Glinner?

848 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 15/08/2023 17:29

I hadn't seen anything about this on X/Twitter previously, but apparently some activists have been putting pressure on the venue and they've cancelled an upcoming event called Comedy Unleashed because one of the comedians is Graham Linehan. How utterly pathetic. https://twitter.com/UnleashedComedy/status/1691476377793409024?s=20 Seems to be organised by/associated with Andrew Doyle, aka Titania McGrath.

https://twitter.com/UnleashedComedy/status/1691476377793409024?s=20

OP posts:
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135
Hepwo · 17/08/2023 10:51

Having read your posts Horticulturer you carry on.

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 10:53

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 10:49

He said 'nearly all', and then listed Amy Challoner as an example of a 'central trans figure'.

Now, if Amy Challoner is his definition of a 'central trans figure', then he has set the threshold for 'central' incredibly low. By definition, then, other prominent campaigners for trans inclusion - and there are very many more prominent than Amy Challoner - counts as a 'central trans figure' by GL's test. And GL is on the record saying that 'nearly all' of them are paedophiles.

So, you would like more names?

How many will make you happy that Glinner has a point?

And has it sunk in that maybe your constant dismissing and minimising is just part of the red flag alarms that people feel they need to raise?

Datun · 17/08/2023 10:53

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 10:49

He said 'nearly all', and then listed Amy Challoner as an example of a 'central trans figure'.

Now, if Amy Challoner is his definition of a 'central trans figure', then he has set the threshold for 'central' incredibly low. By definition, then, other prominent campaigners for trans inclusion - and there are very many more prominent than Amy Challoner - counts as a 'central trans figure' by GL's test. And GL is on the record saying that 'nearly all' of them are paedophiles.

When a candidate for deputy leader of a major political party, and Stonewall, the single most influential trans organisation in the world, is 'setting the bar rather low'.

please tell me you're not in PR.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 17/08/2023 10:54

Bit weird of Horticulturer to stand in the middle of a discussion on sex offenders talking about mispronunciation of two letters but I suppose desperate times call for desperate (deflection) measures?

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 10:55

ArabeIIaScott · 17/08/2023 10:51

I don't know who he meant, but I'm guessing John Money, Alfred Kinsey and Michel Foucault are included, all of whom are big names. And also paedophiles, although I'm not quite sure if the allegations regarding Foucault's activity were 100% proven.

I would have thought those three too.

I expect the deflection though from Janette will continue.

IcakethereforeIam · 17/08/2023 10:56

I always thought it was pronounced Th'it Crowd, and was set in Lancashire.

Horticulturer · 17/08/2023 10:56

NicCageisnotNickCave · 17/08/2023 10:54

Bit weird of Horticulturer to stand in the middle of a discussion on sex offenders talking about mispronunciation of two letters but I suppose desperate times call for desperate (deflection) measures?

It wasn't me who brought it up, I thought there were more fans of Graham's work here.

ArabeIIaScott · 17/08/2023 10:57

Who would you suggest are 'central figures' in trans activism, Janette?

Datun · 17/08/2023 10:57

From PlanetJanette daft posting, it's not surprising that TRAs don't want Graham to go to court over this.

Defending links to paedophilia, by saying, but he didn't mention them all in a TV interview, ta da!!

🤣🤣🤣

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:06

Datun · 17/08/2023 10:48

Again, if you don't want people to list them, stop asking them to!

I'm not asking anyone to list them. GL himself launched into that on Talk TV when he defined Amy Challoner as a 'central trans figure'.

Now, off the top of my head, figures that are much more central than Amy Challoner in advocating for trans rights include:

Owen Jones
Shon Faye
Laverne Cox
Freddie McConnell
Jake and Hannah Graf
Elliott Page
Katy Montgomery
Helen Webberley
David Paisely
Sally Hines
Janey Godley
Mhairi Black
Angela Eagle
Laurie Penny

The list goes on. All more prominent - more central - than Amy Challoner. And GL is on the record, therefore, as saying he thinks 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:08

Datun · 17/08/2023 10:53

When a candidate for deputy leader of a major political party, and Stonewall, the single most influential trans organisation in the world, is 'setting the bar rather low'.

please tell me you're not in PR.

Green Party = 'major political party'

Please tell me you're not in politics.

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:09

Datun · 17/08/2023 10:57

From PlanetJanette daft posting, it's not surprising that TRAs don't want Graham to go to court over this.

Defending links to paedophilia, by saying, but he didn't mention them all in a TV interview, ta da!!

🤣🤣🤣

I'd actually love this to go to court - I think there's a good chance the venue would win, and I can think of no better poster boy for the anti-trans movement than GL.

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:10

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 10:53

So, you would like more names?

How many will make you happy that Glinner has a point?

And has it sunk in that maybe your constant dismissing and minimising is just part of the red flag alarms that people feel they need to raise?

I don't need more names - Linehan has set the threshold.

Anyone more prominent/central in trans rights commentary and activism than Amy Challoner is a 'central trans figure', and GL has said that 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 11:10

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:06

I'm not asking anyone to list them. GL himself launched into that on Talk TV when he defined Amy Challoner as a 'central trans figure'.

Now, off the top of my head, figures that are much more central than Amy Challoner in advocating for trans rights include:

Owen Jones
Shon Faye
Laverne Cox
Freddie McConnell
Jake and Hannah Graf
Elliott Page
Katy Montgomery
Helen Webberley
David Paisely
Sally Hines
Janey Godley
Mhairi Black
Angela Eagle
Laurie Penny

The list goes on. All more prominent - more central - than Amy Challoner. And GL is on the record, therefore, as saying he thinks 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

And you think that because Challoner has now fallen out of view in the UK that they are no longer considered to have been of influence?

My.... the parsing you are attempting to do to minimise this is incredible.

Out of mind, out of sight now is the tactic being used. Not the fact that this person was involved in setting policy before they left the UK. Nope .... nothing to see.... all in the past... look there is a squirrel.

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 11:13

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:10

I don't need more names - Linehan has set the threshold.

Anyone more prominent/central in trans rights commentary and activism than Amy Challoner is a 'central trans figure', and GL has said that 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

And you are still minimising and dismissing concerns.

And those reading along can see it.

And are getting some great places such as Foucault and Money to start their search.

Are you going to dismiss those considered the 'fathers' of queer theory underlying the current gender identity ideology? Care to try? No?

NicCageisnotNickCave · 17/08/2023 11:16

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:08

Green Party = 'major political party'

Please tell me you're not in politics.

Generally considered to be 4th out of well, CBA to count but here’s the list https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom

Must be around 100?

I think you have a skewed definition of what ‘major’ means, as well as ‘central’!

List of political parties in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom

NotBadConsidering · 17/08/2023 11:16

Of course Aimee Challenor is a central figure in trans activism. Just because Challenor has gone quiet recently doesn’t mean he wasn’t central to the spreading of the entire ideology. Challenor was:

Feted in the Guardian
Feted by Caroline Lucas
Revealed to be the son of a paedophile who had infiltrated the Greens

The entire tenet of the Challenor family story is how trans is used as a cloak of protection that allows dangerous men to fool otherwise well-meaning people into lowering their safeguarding boundaries.

And the Challenor family saga is still central and prominent in trans activism because everyone still pretends it didn’t happen and never happens so there’s nothing to worry about.

It would be most convenient to TRAs if Challenor was quietly forgotten and it’s obvious why.

ArabeIIaScott · 17/08/2023 11:17

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:06

I'm not asking anyone to list them. GL himself launched into that on Talk TV when he defined Amy Challoner as a 'central trans figure'.

Now, off the top of my head, figures that are much more central than Amy Challoner in advocating for trans rights include:

Owen Jones
Shon Faye
Laverne Cox
Freddie McConnell
Jake and Hannah Graf
Elliott Page
Katy Montgomery
Helen Webberley
David Paisely
Sally Hines
Janey Godley
Mhairi Black
Angela Eagle
Laurie Penny

The list goes on. All more prominent - more central - than Amy Challoner. And GL is on the record, therefore, as saying he thinks 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

Thanks. These are all very, very recent names, though. Have you not been following the subject very long?

Datun · 17/08/2023 11:17

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:09

I'd actually love this to go to court - I think there's a good chance the venue would win, and I can think of no better poster boy for the anti-trans movement than GL.

good lord.

You think the most important thing would be Internet randoms' opinion over who constitutes a central trans figure, rather than Linehan's actual evidence of paedophilia links??

It's amazing how someone who is desperate for Graham to go to court over this, has spent so much time trying to persuade us it's a bad idea 🤣

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2023 11:18

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 10:24

Well based on that Talk TV interview, GL's threshold seems to be Amy Challoner's father.

So GL's threshold for being a 'central trans figure' seems to be being a father of a trans person who has had a fairly minor role in a minor political party, has been part of an advisory group for Stonewall and has knocked about student LGBT+ circles for a bit.

That is a pretty low threshold for someone to be a 'central trans figure'. So if 'nearly all central trans figures' are paedophiles, by definition, that must include 'nearly everyone' more central than David Challoner.

Minor role? Challenor stood for Deputy Leader of the Green Party! After the Greens belatedly and halfheartedly tried to investigate whether there had been any safeguarding breaches by allowing David Challenor to act as Aimee's election agent while Aimee knew he was awaiting trial for rape and torture of a minor child, Aimee took great offence and left the party. Incredibly, the LibDems were delighted to welcome Aimee in, but that didn't last very long either, and Aimee went off to the US to marry one of members of Aimee's polycule, a man who has openly spoken about being sexually attracted to minors.

I understand that Aimee was also a moderator on Reddit for a large number of groups attractive to young kids interested in gender and therefore responsible for banning people raising questions and censoring debate. Eventually either Reddit acted (very late, after ignoring many complaints) or Aimee resigned. A lot of damage would have been done before that, though.

David and Aimee Challenor claimed credit for coding one of the first terfblockers on Twitter, leading to thousands of people, mostly women, being automatically blocked, often not even because of anything they'd posted, but just because they followed prominent gender critical accounts.

I can't agree that AC was a minor figure in any of this.

OP posts:
PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:19

Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 11:10

And you think that because Challoner has now fallen out of view in the UK that they are no longer considered to have been of influence?

My.... the parsing you are attempting to do to minimise this is incredible.

Out of mind, out of sight now is the tactic being used. Not the fact that this person was involved in setting policy before they left the UK. Nope .... nothing to see.... all in the past... look there is a squirrel.

Someone asked what was meant by 'central trans figure'. I am simply answering the question by reference to GL's own threshold.

Do you disagree with the post? Do you think any of the people I listed are less central or less prominent than Amy Challoner?

If not, do you agree that by GL's own test, they are 'central trans figures'?

And if you do, do you agree with him that they are 'nearly all nonces'?

NicCageisnotNickCave · 17/08/2023 11:19

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:06

I'm not asking anyone to list them. GL himself launched into that on Talk TV when he defined Amy Challoner as a 'central trans figure'.

Now, off the top of my head, figures that are much more central than Amy Challoner in advocating for trans rights include:

Owen Jones
Shon Faye
Laverne Cox
Freddie McConnell
Jake and Hannah Graf
Elliott Page
Katy Montgomery
Helen Webberley
David Paisely
Sally Hines
Janey Godley
Mhairi Black
Angela Eagle
Laurie Penny

The list goes on. All more prominent - more central - than Amy Challoner. And GL is on the record, therefore, as saying he thinks 'nearly all' of them are nonces.

Are you 20 years old? Never read a history book?

The world existed before you did!

Here’s Zagria (a trans person) Who’s Who of Gender Variance. You should read it sometime, might learn something.

https://zagria.blogspot.com/p/index.html?m=1

https://zagria.blogspot.com/p/cis-person-index.html?m=1

Trans Person Index

Index to the sites 'A Gender Variant Who's Who' and 'Gender Variance in the Arts' The indices are normally updated at the end of each ca...

https://zagria.blogspot.com/p/index.html?m=1

PlanetJanette · 17/08/2023 11:20

ArabeIIaScott · 17/08/2023 11:17

Thanks. These are all very, very recent names, though. Have you not been following the subject very long?

Why does it matter that they are recent?

Do you agree that they are at least as central or prominent as Amy Challoner is or was?

And therefore all of them count as 'central trans figures' by GL's own threshold.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 17/08/2023 11:21

I asked yesterday for the full context of this alleged remark of Graham's. I think I'm still waiting.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 17/08/2023 11:21

It is really all down to deflection, isn't it? Anyway to dismiss the valid concerns... I notice that Peter Tatchell has been left untouched. Why?