Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

It looks like Duncan Bannatyne has responded to the post screenshotting this thread on twitter, but I don't follow him, so I can't see what it says. Can someone who can see it let us know what it says? It's the tweet that this one is replying to if that helps - https://twitter.com/yona1959/status/1690333545837813760

@CalMeKate In what capacity do you have the safeguarding role that you referred to in your first post, please? I sure as hell hope you don’t work in (my children’s) schools or healthcare or for social services with your nonchalant approach.

And you’re wrong with your understanding of genitalia. Men have penises; women don’t.

@CalMeKate check your privilege, MALE privilege. Typically telling women who can and cannot be in our changing rooms, which are meant to be a safe space. Typical of entitled males. Women had to battle to even be allowed to do sport in the first place. Get out of our spaces.

Just to clarify, this is "strange behaviour" we need to talk to two year old about? Because I'm seeing firstly a list of crimes, followed at the end by something so gobsmackingly daft I'm currently struggling to get my head around it.

A man intentional flashing his genitals in the changing room
a man having an erection in the changing room
a man touching his penis to engage in sexual activity in the changing room
a man taking photos in the changing room (regardless whether it is a selfie or not)
a man having a conversation with two teenage girls in the changing room
a man pretending to be a transwomen to access women and or girls in the changing room
etc etc

-‐-----

How do I explain that one man with absolutely no female features, with a penis is a transwoman and should be left to do as they please where they please, and one man with absolutely no female features , with a penis.....is pretending?

Help me understand.

A man intentional flashing his genitals in the changing room

This is exactly what happened to these two wee girls.

Are you really this blind? Really? God help whoever it is you're supposed to be "safeguarding" then, because with you on their side, they are well and truly stuffed.

You're a bloody disgrace.

Here you go. I don’t anybody else has responded with the screenshot yet.

Didn’t load sorry!

What is not strange behaviour is a transwomen getting changed in the women’s changing rooms.

Yes it bloody well is strange behaviour. A grown adult man is getting naked with young girls. Think about that!

@CalMeKate take your male privilege and get lost. You are despicable gaslighting women and children.

Strange behaviour would include;

• A man intentional flashing his genitals in the changing room

We know he's been doing this.

• a man having an erection in the changing room

Perhaps he did.

• a man touching his penis to engage in sexual activity in the changing room

The girls talked about not wanting to watch him 'dry his bits'. Maybe he was doing this.

• a man having a conversation with two teenage girls in the changing room

He may have done this. And one of the girls is only 11.

• a man pretending to be a transwomen to access women and or girls in the changing room

How do we tell the difference between a 'real transwoman' and a man pretending to be a transwoman?

What's that 1953 film Kiss me? I'm thinking Kiss me Kevin...

My personal opinion does not matter as to whether a women has a penis or not

No woman has a penis.

It is factually accurate in our society that there are transwomen with penis. As someone said 90% of transwomen have penises

It is also factually accurate that these people are men.

Are you really that naive that you think all these men with their penis intact wanting access to female only spaces are suddenly harmless because they claim to be women?

I have to say I am a little surprised at the lack of insight in to transwomens rights on this thread

I'm shocked that some people have such a lack of insight into women's rights and protections and why they suddenly think they become irrelevant when some men want access.

The comparator for discrimination of transwomen is other men.

Women are legally entitled to single SEX spaces and it's why the exemptions are in place to keep ALL men out in certain circumstances.

Telling women and children they must except naked men in female only spaces is gaslighting and abusive. Well done.

The most basic safeguarding is having single sex spaces where needed.
You think women should have to lose this right in order to accommodate male feelings and provide validation of a 'gender identity' at their own expense or risk? Pure misogyny.

Also 'young people' don't buy this bullshit.
In your circles maybe, but in society as a whole? Nope.

Where ever you are on the trans fence of acceptance or refusal our society is inclusive of trans people and trans rights. That is factually accurate.

And it’s factually accurate to say our society should be respectful of the rights of women and girls to have single sex spaces for privacy and dignity. And safety.

😁

The best we can all do is have conversations with your children about boundaries and what is and isn’t acceptable behaviour

Yet that is completely contradictory to you claiming certain men should be allowed in women's spaces and that op's DD'S should be respectful to the man getting his penis out in front of them.

How about having conversations with all the male people who want to trample all over female boundaries?
Like entering female only spaces.
That boundary is crystal clear. Penis/male free zone.

I have to say I am a little surprised at the lack of insight in to transwomens rights on this thread

How about the rights of young girls not to have to see fully grown male genitalia dangled in front of them in a demand safe space? That’s what’s more important than hurting the ego of a few TW demanding their rights over everyone else

If you genuinely want to know how to talk to
your 2 year old I would recommend this book below. It has chapters on different stages and different conversations you can have.

My 5 year old daughter and I talk about having an “icky feeling” and we explore that feeling. Some times it is someone on the bus or walking to and from school. We talk about strange behaviour, not stranger danger. As I said before 93-95% of children are sexually abused by people they know, not strangers.

CalMeKate

^Having open conversations from a young age (ideally from 2-3 years old) about “strange behaviour” is more beneficial and the children will be safer as a result.
Strange behaviour would include;

• A man intentional flashing his genitals in the changing room
• a man having an erection in the changing room
• a man touching his penis to engage in sexual activity in the changing room
• a man taking photos in the changing room (regardless whether it is a selfie or not)
• a man having a conversation with two teenage girls in the changing room
• a man pretending to be a transwomen to access women and or girls in the changing room
• etc etc^

So we have to warn 2 year old girls about erections? In what way is socialising toddlers into fear not abusive in and of itself? Sounds like a license for the sort of people who like talking dirty to reluctant audiences.

I don't know whether it is sad or lucky that the OP's daughters seem very well able to work out what strange behavior is, and to hide from it. Looking back, the awful thing is girls do know from 11 or before what is dodgy.

The best we can all do is have conversations with your children about boundaries and what is and isn’t acceptable behaviour.

No. The best we can all do is have single sex changing rooms, which are perfectly legal.

All your nonsense about passports and asking questions is irrelevant.

The law allows single sex facilities.

So we ignore the possibility of strangers abusing children and just allow any man to flash his bits in a female changing room?

@CalMeKate why would we take any advice from a safeguarding danger like you in how to speak to our children?

I am not disagreeing with you. Of course the girls have the right and should be protected.

my point is this situation, with a transwomen being in a typically female space, is not isolated and will continue throughout their lives. They need to feel safe and comfortable to navigate these situations.

If I was OP I would start by having a conversation with all the children but especially the girls that he wants to know when they feel like this, the situation in its entirety, and how they kept them selves safe. Or what they might do if they find them selves in this situation again. Maybe in a public toilet at the cinema etc etc. The conversation with the children is more important that the conversation with Bannatynes. Who may block this person attending but what happens next time, because there will be a next time.

@CalMeKate it was more rhetorical, my kids are teens/20s.

I'd really like you to clarify that last point though please. How do we identify the difference between person with the penis who is a transwoman in the changing room in front of the 9 year old mentioned by OP, and the person with a penis who is in the changing room who is pretending to be a transwoman.

Thanks.

Please chose advice from where ever you think is right for your child and your life.

Trans rights are now a standard within our society so preparing children how to navigate this world we live in is far safer including transpeople than excluding them from your narrative.

my point is this situation, with a transwomen being in a typically female space, is not isolated and will continue throughout their lives. They need to feel safe and comfortable to navigate these situations.

No they should not. No female child should have to put up with any male in their female spaces. Transwomen are male and have no place changing in female changing rooms.