If you're GC, what should trans people actually do?

[AmaListening]

I'd like to understand what someone with gender critical views thinks trans people should do.

Maybe let's make it specific with a couple of famous examples: Laverne Cox (trans woman), and Elliot Page (trans man).

Imagine you had it exactly your way. What should those human beings, who feel and identify the way they do, do about every aspect like: names, pronouns, surgery, clothing, relationships, social spaces, work, sports.

How should Laverne speak about her own identity? Should Elliot not have had top surgery?

I'd really like to understand what the world looks like for trans people if we carry GC views through to their end points.

I would like every human to recognise the real experience and disadvantages that female biology and physiology brings compared to male biology and physiology. And then protect the sex based rights and dignities of females of all ages accordingly worldwide. That’s it.

What transpeople do or don’t do then becomes irrelevant.

@AmaListening why should my daughter not be able to compete at a national level with those of the same natal sex as she is? Can you please explain. Thanks.

People should do whatever the fuck they want to do as long as they don’t a. Compel speech, b. Access opposite sex spaces

"Stay in your lane" is the first phrase that springs to mind.

Trans-identifying males stick to the male lane and if they protest work with other males to allocate different resources

Trans-identifying females don't present a physical threat to females. They will be accepted back in to the fold of women when they stop trying to erase words such as 'mother' 'breast-feeding' etc

Leaving this here

Honestly I'd be totally happy sharing a space with someone like Laverne Cox , I wouldn't feel intimidated but if someone like that transwoman ex murderer trying to be a politician that was shouting about smashing terfs in the face, or the one trying to out the hotel over the changing room thing came into a ladies toilet I would not go into a toilet cubicle or let my daughter.
I'm sorry but it's just gut feeling and transwoman that don't pass at all and seem to almost try to look like odd or ugly old ladies on purpose honestly scare me.
Self preservation instincts you learn to live with a girl and woman are hard to shake and shouldn't be ignored.

If she were an athlete or wanted to be a competitive sportsperson, how would she go about that - or would she just not?

Just not. There are many reasons people have to give up their dream of a competitive sports career: injury, mental health, not being talented enough. Transitioning gender just has to be one of those reasons. I really can’t see any other way that womens sport can survive. And let’s be frank, it hasn’t been around very long at all. Women were only allowed to run marathons since the 1970s. Womens rugby is even more recent. Womens sport has always been precarious. By all means, be trans. Go about your business. Use whatever pronouns you want. Use whatever toilets you want for all I care. But this is where I personally draw the line.

No biological males in women’s sports. Ever.

For the rest I think it depends if they’ve had bottom surgery. Certainly no penises in women’s prisons, rape counselling groups etc.

Im on the fence about toilets. I think if someone is genuinely trying to live their life as a woman then it’s unfair to force them into the men’s toilets. But I do get the safety aspect of nefarious individuals accessing it as a women’s space.

Stop, just STOP erasing words like woman and mother from eg medical literature. I will not be erased from society because of 0.01% of the population!!!

In short, cope with the idea that other people have needs and feelings too, and are not NPCs in trans lives.

I think medical professionals should give them treatment for their mental health issues and not be able to perform gender affirming surgery.

They should both present however they like in terms of clothing, have relationships with anyone that’s consenting etc. But when it comes to toilets, changing rooms etc they should both use spaces for the sex they are, so Cox should use the male toilets and Page should use the female.

And they shouldn’t expect to control others language. I would use he/him for Cox and she/her for Page because that is what they are and also what they look like. It’s very simple.

I feel very sorry for them both not being able to accept who they are, it must be awful to feel such disconnect with your body. The answer should never be blockers, hormones and surgery though. It’s a mental health issue.

Eliot page makes me want to cry. Such a brilliant female actor, then gets Eliots breasts removed and wants to be called a man. What is wrong with being a lesbian? What is wrong with breasts? Why would anyone want major surgery?

Anyway. Eliot can use the ladies. Tbh Laverne can use the ladies too, I don't care.

I don't want males anywhere I'm naked so no Laverne in female gym changing rooms etc. And to make it fair Laverne should compete in men's or open sports categories. Eliot can compete in whatever Eliot wants.

I'll use pronouns, names etc but in situations where biology matters then it should be done on birth sex not identity.

You can't consent on behalf of other women though. Never.
Heard of the #metoo movement? Or #nothankyou ? Or #nomeansno ?

Wow

It's very striking to see them next to each other

I agree with all of this

My pug identifies as a Cambridge professor 🎓He's very wise. What would you advise him to do if he wants to live out his true identity? I think Cambridge should accommodate him.

😬😂

😍 I would ace professor’s Ear Rub class

I think medical professionals should give them treatment for their mental health issues and not be able to perform gender affirming surgery.

Well, yes, quite. That's obvious but not what TRAs want to hear.

Is Somerville still around? Does anyone remember when she identified as trans to make a point with some kind of award scheme at work?

The point (aka problem) is that anyone can say they're anything they want. Even if they're not what they're claiming. For whatever purpose.

I still remember and respect her for that.

@MidCent I'm not trying to offer consent for other women I'm giving my personal opinion of how I personally would feel.
For me there is a vast difference between someone like Laverne Cox living as a woman and a man putting on a skirt or dying their hair blue and saying they are a woman,
I would not agree with laverne participating in women's sports and I'd genuinely love to know if Elliot Page and other young trans men choose to go in the smelly men's loo's without feeling massive vulnerability.

But what does "living as a woman" mean when you're a man?

BUT WHERE WILL THE DOGS THAT IDENTIFY AS PROFESSORS TEACH IF PEOPLE UNREASONABLY INSIST ON SEEING WHAT'S REALLY THERE AND SAYING 'BUT THAT'S JUST A DOG'? HAVE YOU THOUGHT OF THAT YOU BIGOTS? HAVE YOU? HMM?

Ok, so in your ideal world, where would Laverne Cox go to the toilet, if out in public? If she were an athlete or wanted to be a competitive sportsperson, how would she go about that - or would she just not?

Where do you think LC should go to the loo or compete in sports?

Personally, I can not set the difference between Laverne Cox "living as a woman" and a man putting on a skirt or dying their hair blue and saying they are a woman, at all.