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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

315 replies

betterchange · 07/08/2023 18:08

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

OP posts:
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9
QueenHippolyta · 07/08/2023 23:04

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Rewis · 07/08/2023 23:09

I have to say I'm guilty of this. I'm not from the UK and had never experienced single sex fitting rooms before. But learned after being told off that better stay at the store side and wait for partner to make the catwalk 😁

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 23:13

&Stop the nonsense there are no Thai ladyboys or the new precious petite youth in our changing rooms, toilets, sports etc*

Why is it nonsense for a poster to point out that there are younger (as in young at age 22) who are trans but can pass more than someone who didnt transition until say in their 40s or whatever?
They know someone who is.
Does it disrupt your "men in wigs" narrative, you don't like to hear it?
Younger trans people exist. If you don't see them, they clearly pass then don't they! Which kind of goes against the " but but I can always tell"

SmileyClare · 07/08/2023 23:14

All M and s changing cubicles have lockable doors now.

I would not feel threatened by a man in that situation.

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 23:15

SmileyClare · 07/08/2023 23:14

All M and s changing cubicles have lockable doors now.

I would not feel threatened by a man in that situation.

There’s a special category of porn where men have left hidden cameras in changing rooms. Now they have free access it’s everywhere.

tillyandmilly · 07/08/2023 23:17

I was in Marks trying something on - a woman beckoned her boyfriend or husband for their opinion but luckily the staff member said men were not allowed in the women’s changing area !!👏👏👏👏

GCWorkNightmare · 07/08/2023 23:19

ZeldaFighter · 07/08/2023 20:44

Didn't believe you. Picked a random pair of knickers.

First review:

Very Nice Knickers, great colours!

JiCoHerts
July 2023
Yes, I recommend this
Love the Cleo range of knickers, these are such great value for monies. Love the colours too. They are a great choice for guys who prefer women’s knickers over boring men’s pants. Nice stretchy lace panel in the front to hide our modesty.

Show quote history

Every review has been passed by a moderator before publishing.

AllOfThemWitches · 07/08/2023 23:20

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 20:39

It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

I'd much rather be in a changing room with a trans woman than a woman (which you presumably are) with a stinking, sneering judgemental attitude like yours (regardless of if you're trying to hide your smirks)

Erm I think this poster was responding to another who said she basically had to fight the urge to laugh at transwomen.

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 23:23

AllOfThemWitches · 07/08/2023 23:20

Erm I think this poster was responding to another who said she basically had to fight the urge to laugh at transwomen.

Show quote history

Yes, they still said what they said though. Funny how people keep speaking for the poster who said they fight back the urge to laugh at far or unattractive women but they haven't actually come back to explain whether they do laugh or not at them.

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 23:23

fat

AllOfThemWitches · 07/08/2023 23:24

If you're the type of person who laughs at someone because of how they look, what difference does it make who you're laughing at?

JudgeRudy · 07/08/2023 23:31

JellySaurus · 07/08/2023 22:47

Are you for real?

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

Until about 5 minutes ago, those changing rooms were labelled WOMEN, and no man would have dreamed of entering. Well, some men would have dreamed of entering the women's changing rooms, but they would have been kept out, both by social convention and by the M&S's policy.

Even now, with all labelling removed, why should any man even think of entering the changing room within the women's lingerie section, where women are likely to be in a state of undress?

If a man wants to try on women's lingerie, there is no reason why he shouldn't. But I wonder why he doesn't do so in the changing rooms situated within menswear?

Show quote history

I am for real. My local M&S has one changing room. It is next to the women's underwear and from experience it seems that its women who use it most often but it's not women only. The larger city store has 2 changing rooms, each on a different floor.
Neither changing room is exclusively for trying on underwear but I do believe bra measuring service is in one only.
This wasn't a man trying on underwear (it would have made no difference to me). It was a man joining his partner so he could view her 'outfit'.

SpicyMoth · 07/08/2023 23:33

CraggyIslandTouristBoard · 07/08/2023 22:00

If it’s anything like our nearest M&S - large out of town kind - then they have abolished women’s changing rooms completely. They have three changing rooms labelled as follows:

  • Men” (because they still get their own space don’t they?!)
  • “Lingerie” - what used to be the women’s changing rooms, but that wasn’t inclusive enough of the men who get their kicks out of trying on and w@nking over women’s underwear. Or those who just like to intimidate women by their presence and to co-opt women’s spaces:
  • “Try it on” - unisex changing room.
So to sum up: men can use all the changing rooms, but women aren’t allowed to change anywhere without men present.

Slow clap for M & S.

👏

👏

👏

If that's true, I'm fairly sure they're liable for being discriminatory against women?
I can't remember the exact specifics, but legally there's something about they're not allowed to have a space for one sex exclusively, whilst not offering the same for the other sex - Or something like that anyway :S

Cantanna · 07/08/2023 23:34

I was in M&S on Friday and noticed for the first time that the toilets are now gender neutral ...I was with a friend but would not have been happy had my granddaughters had to use them ,knowing males could have been in there .

SuperNewMe · 07/08/2023 23:48

AllOfThemWitches · 07/08/2023 23:24

If you're the type of person who laughs at someone because of how they look, what difference does it make who you're laughing at?

I agree, and anyone who laughs at others appearance is awful in my eyes, whether it's the poster laughing at trans people or the one saying they laugh at fat unattractive women.

SpicyMoth · 07/08/2023 23:49

I kinda feel like OP's intent with her post has been entirely missed by a fair few posters here tbh?

The point and question for others was about how easy it felt to call out that a man shouldn't be in there when it was just a man, "No harm done".
But then in contrast how she imagines she would have felt "far from able to speak out" had this man identified as a woman.

The only difference here in being able to speak vs feeling unable to speak is how the man identifies.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that was the conversation OP was trying to start more than anything...

SwordToFlamethrower · 08/08/2023 00:08

Well done

JellySaurus · 08/08/2023 00:15

My local M&S has one changing room. It is next to the women's underwear and from experience it seems that its women who use it most often but it's not women only. The larger city store has 2 changing rooms, each on a different floor.

So they've decided, now that they welcome men into the women's fitting room, there's no need to provide privacy for either sex. With fewer fitting rooms to staff they can make savings on staff costs.

This wasn't a man trying on underwear (it would have made no difference to me). It was a man joining his partner so he could view her 'outfit'.

Just as I don't care how the man identifies, I don't care why he was in there. Men should stay out of spaces where women may be undressed.

The only exception to this would be if a disabled woman needed her male partner's support. In which case the courteous thing to do would be to let the other women using the space know that he is there, and for him to be as discreet as possible.

QueenHippolyta · 08/08/2023 00:21

SpicyMoth · 07/08/2023 23:49

I kinda feel like OP's intent with her post has been entirely missed by a fair few posters here tbh?

The point and question for others was about how easy it felt to call out that a man shouldn't be in there when it was just a man, "No harm done".
But then in contrast how she imagines she would have felt "far from able to speak out" had this man identified as a woman.

The only difference here in being able to speak vs feeling unable to speak is how the man identifies.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that was the conversation OP was trying to start more than anything...

OP said it would be harder if it were a transwoman (man) but we need as women to start speaking up so others will join us.Then it will be easy to chase these men out of our single sex spaces
And laughing publically at these men is very important as it breaks their fantasy and trans euphoria. They can jog right back to the men's where they belong.

Lavender14 · 08/08/2023 00:23

Cantanna · 07/08/2023 23:34

I was in M&S on Friday and noticed for the first time that the toilets are now gender neutral ...I was with a friend but would not have been happy had my granddaughters had to use them ,knowing males could have been in there .

See I think these things can be double edged though- what about a young girl out shopping with her dad? I'd rather my dh be with my kid than them go alone into any toilets so at least it's more appropriate for parents with opposite sex children with them to keep them safe. Especially since kids often don't like locking toilet door.

SilverSilverStreet · 08/08/2023 00:31

SmileyClare · 07/08/2023 23:14

All M and s changing cubicles have lockable doors now.

I would not feel threatened by a man in that situation.

My local branch of M&S has fitting rooms on all 3 floors. Each fitting room has one disabled cubicle and those only have curtains, not a lockable door.

None of the partitions between the ordinary cubicles reaches the ceiling so I imagine it would be perfectly possible for someone to stand on the bench and peep over to the next cubicle, if they were so inclined.

SuperNewMe · 08/08/2023 01:27

None of the partitions between the ordinary cubicles reaches the ceiling so I imagine it would be perfectly possible for someone to stand on the bench and peep over to the next cubicle, if they were so inclined
This is the way cubicles have always been though, and in all my 4O odd years I've never not gone in a cubicle to get changed because I'm thinking someone could be peeping over the top.
With that mindset, you'd never do anything "just in case."

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VivienneDelacroix · 08/08/2023 01:38

"Chased" 😂
Click bait there OP.

"I questioned whether a man should enter a changing room and he voluntarily left."

GCWorkNightmare · 08/08/2023 07:57

SuperNewMe · 08/08/2023 01:27

None of the partitions between the ordinary cubicles reaches the ceiling so I imagine it would be perfectly possible for someone to stand on the bench and peep over to the next cubicle, if they were so inclined
This is the way cubicles have always been though, and in all my 4O odd years I've never not gone in a cubicle to get changed because I'm thinking someone could be peeping over the top.
With that mindset, you'd never do anything "just in case."

Presumably because you only ever expected there to be women in there, who are highly unlikely to want to peep at other women.

Now it’s a free for all for men in lots of places, weirdly a lot of us are concerned enough to boycott the retailers entirely.

inappropriateraspberry · 08/08/2023 08:47

Annachristie · 07/08/2023 19:38

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in.

What am I missing here? Wasn't the man her partner/ husband?

Where does the OP state that this was a 'man dressed as a woman? ' Wasn't she asking a hypothetical question?

I agree, not very clear. If she was just asking her husband to come into the cubicle for opinions/help I have no problem with it.