I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

[betterchange]

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

It's funny because I always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women - I try not to though.”

I'd much rather be in a changing room with a trans woman than a woman (which you presumably are) with a stinking, sneering judgemental attitude like yours (regardless of if you're trying to hide your smirks)

Good for you!

It takes courage to speak up in these situations. If an adult human male thinks he has the right to go into places where women can reasonably expect to be among only women, who knows what else he may think he has the right to do? Shout? Assault? It's this fear, together with our socially indoctrinated worry about offending, which keeps women silent. A silence that these invaders take as acceptance.

It's funny but why are you so keen to ensure men enjoy 'trans euphoria ' ( and I'm being polite here) in the Ladies' changing room instead of respecting young girls and women's boundaries?

Women don't fucking count when it gets in
the way of men's sexual needs.

More manipulation of facts to suit an argument. Trans people aren’t anything to do with this situation, and yet…

They are everything to do with this situation.

If a man should not be in the changing rooms assigned to women, or the changing rooms within the women's lingerie department, why should any other adult human male be allowed in?

If a transwoman is allowed in the changing rooms assigned to women, or the changing rooms within the women's lingerie department, why shouldn't any other man be allowed in?

Women have the right to privacy, security and dignity.

You might be in the habit of googling unknown porn but I'm not.

Didn't believe you. Picked a random pair of knickers.

First review:

Very Nice Knickers, great colours!

JiCoHerts
July 2023
Yes, I recommend this
Love the Cleo range of knickers, these are such great value for monies. Love the colours too. They are a great choice for guys who prefer women’s knickers over boring men’s pants. Nice stretchy lace panel in the front to hide our modesty.

I guess middle-aged men who like wearing women's (their mother's?) underwear are probably the customer cohort keeping them in business.

@PinkTonic it is possible that this is an abusive relationship/marriage and he was insisting that she shows him everything she tries on.

It's funny, but how you seemingly don't have a problem with someone on this thread sneering at "fat unattractive" women in the ladies changing rooms but you do seem to have one with a hypothetical trans woman being there who wasmt even in there in the first place.

@Holly60 why do you 'always want to laugh at fat or unattractive women' ?

This would bother me because of the Curtains
i wish more changing rooms were proper cubicles with solid doors then tbh I don’t really care about the sex of the other people using them around me. Curtains that don’t close properly are a different matter.

To be fair OP said they weren't English, and I suspect thinking of department store changing rooms as single-sex is a UK thing. I've lived in Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands, and I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid at the scenario described by OP. Expectations around everyday situations are different between cultures so I equally appreciate it's important to posters on here.

I’m not sure how a ban on trans women entering changing cubicles could be enforced.

A person’s sex is not easily determined on sight. Should any masculine looking woman be challenged?

My poor df struggled with this. My mum was very poorly and rapidly changing size due to her illness. She was too frail to manage without him. M and S told him he could accompany her. What should he have done? He's too old or set in his way to internet shop. If you think he should have bought several sizes and returned the ones that didn't fit you need to walk a day in his shoes. He was struggling enough without hysterical women harrasing him. The answer here as others have said is if you don't like the shop's policy don't use it. M&S usually have proper cubicles in the lingerie area, not curtains too.

Yes, you make a great point, sometimes someone might need help/ their carer with them. I'm willing to bet that people will completely ignore it thoughand just focus on the word hysterical instead

Yea, who gets to decide who looks female enough? It sounds like just another way to police a woman's appearance.

Point...missed.

ANY man in the lingerie changing rooms is disconcerting (with the exception of a man who is obviously assisting a woman - and even then I'd expect him to keep his focus on her).

The issue is that you can't tell the pervs from the non-pervs, not till they start perving. And it's too late by then.

It's easy, I've met lots of transwomen (men) in my Lesbian social circle;
They look like men in wigs
big hulking men with Adams apples and a prominent brow ridge.

The best way to keep them out is tell them to go the Men's and point and laugh

Nothing kills trans euphoria faster than laughing which breaks the fantasy.

Women, access your inner Unkind Amazon
It's the only way to take back our
single sex space!

You may want to try Specsavers.

A person’s sex is not easily determined on sight.
LOL. 99.99% of the time it's totally clear, clothes not withstanding.

Now and then an enveloping garment and an androgynous face can make you wonder, but then the person will move or speak...

Again, you seem to be ignoring what people are actually saying.
Whar about women who aren't trans?
It's utter bull to just parrot "we can always tell"
No you can't.
Not all women look feminine.
Also passing trans men exist.
Even if you reckon you can always tell, that still relies on everyone else making a judgement over other women and their looks.

Sounds like a rather clumsy and tasteless TRA attempt at turning the tables to me. The pp felt like laughing bc she couldn't perceive the elfin feminine grace in some 6'5'' bloke, so @Holly60 decided to be witty by slurring middle-aged women instead. A+ for effort, D for execution.

It isn't clear whether or not it was a female only changing space though. If it was, he shouldn't have entered. If it wasn't....

Instead of speaking for the poster and assuming must be a TRA trying to turn the tables to make everyone else look bad (lol, what, mental gymnastics tbere) would be interesting to see what @Holly60 meant themselves

I generally support women standing their ground, and I often do myself, but I can't here.

For me the changing cubicles area isn't a single sex space. It just isn't a thing in my country (EU), nor do I remember meeting single sex shop areas in any other country (Europe/NorthAm).

I don't enjoy shopping, and I often have my DP with me because I never know which cut will work for me in which size, so I'm trying things on and he runs around the shop trying to find "this cut, one size bigger/smaller, no matter the colour".

I don't want to criticise your decision, maybe it was totally in-line with the local rules... It's just interesting how local habits influence what seems normal to us.