Women's rights general conversations - Thread 6

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 5.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

Yes - that's good step, Brit.

ATEOTD, their primary concern and focus is on the trials and tribulations of the 'trans community', and what can be further done to ameliorate them. As they make clear. Any concerns for women's rights is minor detail stuff to be tacked on. Who's the daddy here?

A short thread at the moment, but very interesting (even shorter version: I agree with Helen).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4925138-helen-joyces-unfailing-wisdom

I used to be proud to live in Scotland....

www.heraldscotland.com/news/23870225.call-police-scotland-face-political-activism-review/

What. A. Catch.

Not.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4926346-husband-annoyed-when-baby-boy-plays-with-girls-stuff?

Don't know if this has received attention elsewhere, but it seems the closing of GIDS (which isn't actually closed anyway) hasn't done much to safeguard our kids. The indefatigable Kathleen Stock is on the case:

https://unherd.com/2023/10/inside-britains-new-trans-clinics/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

Thanks for the link, I shall give that a read later.

I have tried to discuss this whole subject with my daughter, who has two small girls, but she's told me in no uncertain terms that she doesn't want to hear about it from me. I wouldn't mind so much if she had a firm and well thought-out opinion herself, but basically she thinks it's a much smaller and less important issue than I think it is and she doesn't care about it. Sigh.

but basically she thinks it's a much smaller and less important issue than I think it is and she doesn't care about it

I think this is a defence mechanism where one's own self-image (or entire career) depend on Not Seeing.

My DH is similar. We were both (like many of our social circle) Guardian-reading, left-of-centre, politically-aware, strongly Remain, very pro-migration, anti-Trump, all the Good Bundle, etc etc. So he's desperate for me not to discuss anything about gender ideology and (to an extent) wider ID-politics with him. I think because he's desperate to remain a Good People Bundle-Hugger, but also because he knows what happens to senior academics who are even slightly suspected of not Hugging the whole Good Bundle. So he uses various defensive measures such as saying "It's a small insignificant issue, I don't know why you seek out this disturbing negative topic, just ignore it, it's not important compared to other things..."

I've mostly given up trying and I do understand why he's like this. We have a mortgage to pay, after all. But at least in actual fact, he readily admits he agrees 100% with me and understands that this matters for women's safety, privacy and dignity (and simply that reality matters!).

It's role reversal in our house, Kuc. My wife is a bit TWAW, but her jaw did drop, when I showed her an article about most transw remaining intact and abiding by male pattern crime rates / types.

Anyway, if any of yous can bear it, the Grauniad has an article on Iceland's 1975 women's strike. It doesn't mention sex, but gender quite a lot...

Which is hilarious. I can imagine what might happen if one sex went on strike, but not if one gender did. What would that even mean?

There would be fewer pillow-fights in silky negligees? There would be a sudden decrease in emotional weeping over fluffy kittens? The general standard of map-reading and power-tool operation would abruptly improve?

Arf! Better than that, according to the subheading, this time it's "women and non-binary people" going on strike. So, pretty much anyone who fancies a day off then?

Brian Blessed Boom

TODAY, I IDENTIFY AS NON BINARY AND STRIKE TO SUPPORT MY NON BINARY SISTERS AND WOMEN!

Daughter is a psychotherapist so career-preservation and the need to pay a mortgage may well be involved. I do think the Good People Bundle is in there too.

I'm finding the level of capture hard to get a handle on. Clearly, if you work in most professional settings, in the charity sector, the media, including the BBC, all academia (of course), and many other jobs, you can't say a fucking word for fear of ostracism or even job loss. Hundreds of thousands of people must be living like this. How did we get here?

How did we get here?

I’m sure it’s multi-factorial, but I believe Stonewall has a huge part to play. They were the good guys, they’d achieved their goals, (open) homophobia was much less prevalent, so when they switched their focus to the T rather than the LGB, people assumed they must be right on this too.

And then there’s the “Stonewall Diversity Champions” - who wouldn’t want to be a Stonewall champion when they are, after all, the good guys? And if transness is just another manifestation of sexuality, then of course we should protect and support trans people too, #NoDebate and #BeKind sound perfectly reasonable in the context.

Yup. They are the ones who should have had the big TV exposé, not Russell Brand.

I've recently had a very worried mail from my youngest daughter, who teaches near Vancouver. I've advised her head down, pick your battles, support the parents. What a bloody damned disgrace in 21st bloody century.

The articles in the review I posted here yesterday are indeed well worth a study, btw.

Very sorry to hear of your daughter's work situation, angelico, it's so utterly crap that all this is happening and good people are being scared into silence. Glad she's got you for support.

Canada is more or less completely captured and a dangerous place to be even vaguely terfy.

I hope this isn't just more words

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/24/suella-braverman-police-not-refer-transgender-rapists-men/

It might need it's own thread. It can be found at archive. ph.

I have a vote in the Greens for their Diversity and Inclusion Person

I think I know which way to vote (reading between the lines a bit), but here are my two options

Ria Patel & Kelsey Trevett | The Green Party

Kefentse Dennis | The Green Party

Thoughts?

A good one from Victoria Smith.

https://thecritic.co.uk/trust-your-discomfort/

Signs in public toiletsts_ tell women that if they spot a male person, they must “not purposely make them uncomfortable” but should “protect them from harm”. These messages deliberately disorient by reversing the power dynamic. Who exactly is making whom uncomfortable? Who is a threat to whom? They are prodding the same female socialisation that made me feel judgmental for knowing I was in danger. No one is working to remove the cause of female discomfort, but they are working very hard to make women carry the blame.^

YY, this has always been my problem with the dismissal of women's feelings and concerns. Teaching girls to ignore their instincts and boundaries is wrong and puts them in danger. Not just from strangers, but from men they know.