Starmer Radio 5 "A woman is an Adult female"

[fromorbit]

Starmer says "a woman is an adult female, let's clear that one up."

Here the words of reality - 1.27:40 Radio 5
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p101

Not so difficult was it now was it. So where is apology to Rosie, Tonia and everyone in Labour Women's Declaration?

Let them attend conference.

Also lets hear what Scottish and Welsh Labour think. Explain if they differ and why.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3149201-Labour-against-transphobia-group-thread-2

Thanks for that.

Thats one other thing we need to take into account. Starmer may believe in womens right to have single sex spaces, but if there is a critical mass of misogyny within the labour party, these young men will take over will be the leaders in the future. Without open debate, men like Streeting will continue to prioritise niche sexual right activism, over women and children rights.

Joining authoritarian facebook group is not something anyone does by accident, and it odd that the labout party is not more questioning of the bizarre claim.

I suppose what im trying to say, is that if Starmer believes sex and gender are different, and women have the right to sse, he needs to remove the mechanism for the two to be confused. If he doesnt, streeting will be in a better position to get back to TWAW , and we are back to square one with men in womens prisons.

From the Spectator 😆

Without open debate, men like Streeting will continue to prioritise niche sexual right activism, over women and children rights.

The funny thing is, a lot of these men see Streeting as a transphobe, as he once acknowledged that women are female. He's just more pragmatic than they are. And sly. I don't trust him.

If you're still going to vote Tory after the change in the Labour Party's position and statements then you're going to vote Tory anyway.

Which is, you know, PERFECTLY OK. I disagree with you but that's fine, we're in a democracy. I just wish you wouldn't make the whole GC movement look like it's only interest is in using the issue to support right-wing politics. I can't be the only person who's becoming disillusioned with the whole thing.

Have you read the thread?
If you have read it, have you understood it?

You can’t say this for other people though.

Maybe for you. But if Starmer isn’t trusted on this that’s up to each voter individually.

This blanket statement doesn’t work.

I have no idea how I'm going to vote though. I'm not a tribal voter. I do however trust this 'change' about as third as far as I could throw Mr Starmer.

The Labour party have not significantly changed their position. They've just changed the phrasing. What is being proposed is still effectively self Id. There has been no significant shift or evidence that they have understood all of the issues. They are still aligned to Stonewall and doing their bidding.

Furthermore, they still have many on their benches who are out and out TWAW and who have referred to women's campaign groups as 'hate groups'. Women have been demonised and excluded for years from local CLPs and trade union branches. No apologies.

My Labour MP refuses to meet with her constituents on this issue and we've ben told " you're wasting your time". Do you really expect people of integrity and serious intent ( on this issue) to vote for any of that?

It is nothing but a PR move - and they seem to think people are stupid enough to fall for it. They give no indication of even understanding what the 'spousal veto' means or implies.

What is inherently wrong with being on the right of centre rather than the left of centre, anyway?

Most people on the Left of the Labour Party referer to Kier Starmer as a 'right wing stooge'. You can't please Leftists. They're obsessed and self righteous.

I suggest that if you are so disillusioned about the whole movement - then you must have had some serious illusions to bein with?

When someone is clear and determined then they do what is required to achieve that goal - moving one step closer at a time. Voting Labour, as it stands, is not going to bring about that goal.

It took a long time for the Jewish community to trust Labour again, and even then there are still MPs displaying anti semitic rhetoric.

Warm words mean nothing.

But don’t you think that it’s wise to be cautious until the definition of “adult female” used by Starmer is absolutely clear? We need to know that he’s not including trans people with a GRC. After all, Robin Moria White is now describing themself as an adult human female.

RMW doesn't even have a GRC.

This newly proposed GRC will be easier to get, and anyone who wants to source a doctor willing to sign it off for them will get one.

don’t you think that it’s wise to be cautious until the definition of “adult female” used by Starmer is absolutely clear?

I admire your faith and good will in believing that he is planning to make this absolutely clear. Or even vaguely clear.

The benefit to him is to fog this as much as is possible. It's been tried by all the political parties for years. 'We are definitely protecting single sex spaces (and men are any sex they choose.)' To the uninformed, it sounds like the problem has gone away. To the informed.... you're left wondering what they're smoking.

You Labour cheerleaders never read the room do you? Why should I support my former party ever again when they wanted to expel me for knowing that there are 2 sexes. Freedom of speech is now what matters most to me.

Nothing. After all the main justification for having a Labour Government again is that the Tories have had their 13 year stint and it's Labour's turn again in our FPTP system.
No one forced the Labour Party to alienate 51% of the electorate. They chose to do it because it suited them.

I wonder if all the raging Labour men are going to stand by their principles and leave the party.

I e seen some on Twitter resigning in outrage. As long as Starmer doesn't panic and change his definition of a woman again to placate them.

Starmer is throwing those of us who are very uncomfortable voting Tory a bone. The party hasn't changed overnight. I think it's quite cheap actually to say 'Oh well then, great - now I can safely vote Labour and henceforth deny any responsibility for the mess they will create for women and children because Starmer once said women are adult human females' - while he probably had his fingers crossed behind his back muttering 'which includes those with a GRC'

@catsfleasandbabies this is exactly what I think! Starmer's word of the week is 'reflection'. They've reflected on the Scotland situation; Khan is reflecting on the ULEZ.....All it means is they know these policies upset some of their voters. He really doesn't intend to change anything, it's just fluffy sentences. Until he engages with Rosie Duffield and Labour Women's Declaration rather than standing supporting Tatchell etc then I don't believe he's changed at all. Having said that, I really wish he would come out with an unambiguous statement of what a woman is, how Labour will protect single sex spaces, defend women's sport and protect children form affirmation in schools. Then I could happily vote Labour. 15 years ago, all of that would have been a given.

Perhaps you should let go of the idea of a GC movement then?