Starmer Radio 5 "A woman is an Adult female"

[fromorbit]

Starmer says "a woman is an adult female, let's clear that one up."

Here the words of reality - 1.27:40 Radio 5
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001p101

Not so difficult was it now was it. So where is apology to Rosie, Tonia and everyone in Labour Women's Declaration?

Let them attend conference.

Also lets hear what Scottish and Welsh Labour think. Explain if they differ and why.

The "safe spaces" business feels like a way of limiting the discussion to prisons and rape crisis/DA shelters. Those are important but that's not all of. There's toilets, changing rooms, the freedom to assemble as a women's only group.

The most famous women's only group has been captured. And this went under the radar but look who their new Chair is:

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/news/our-new-chair-harriet-harman

Behind the scenes, it's all presumably being worked out. Who they'll consult with, what views are acceptable.

Yes they're clearly trying to work out some sort of weasaly phrasing that will make women who don't look too closely think they're back on side and will generate some huff and puff from the trans lobbies but won't really materially change anything for them - hoping to get votes from both.

It's weaslly and, imo, ultimately doomed to failure as it will never be enough for either side now that the TRAs and the creepy men in women's toilets and changing rooms have forced it all to be so polarised. No feminist or even a woman with young daughters can vote for Labour after what they've been complicit in over the last decade.

We need to think why stepping from law into politics is such a natural transition. What do both sectors do exceptionally well?

This is another step forward. The battle is shifting to new ground. The war is not over though. So we get to celebrate a win so lets do that. So don't be too cynical though I know it is tempting. We always knew when the house of cards started to fall everyone would be trying to escape blame. If this language wasn't important they wouldn't have tried to get women attacked or fired for saying this.

Think of the sacrifices made to get here. Remember Julie in Aberdeen who got attacked on Sunday for knowing women exist just the latest in the long line. So get angry at the hypocrisy sure, but we have to celebrate making politicians back down and squirm too. Just remember there is much more to do as well.

Remember too women in Canada, in USA etc dream of a left/centre wing politician actually admitting women exist. It opens a divide between UK Labour and the US Democrats. So this isn't nothing. Plus it really helps pro-woman politicians within Labour.

Plus it also screws over Lib dems, Greens, as they are now the women do not exist parties unless they revise their language positions. Plus Scottish and Welsh Labour look pathetic.

Still a lot more work to be done obviously. Labour is scared so now is the time to keep putting pressure. Election within 18 months so now is the time to push parties to define themselves so we know exactly what we are voting for or against.

So everyone who is saying they can't trust Labour I don't disagree - at the same time remember we exposed their lies last time. If they lie again we tear that deceit down as well. The TRA side cannot withstand sunlight. The curtains are coming back a bit more.

He's never asked why he supports children being told their bodies are flawed and that drugs and surgery can fix them? Does he agree with Cass & what's the party position on the experimental medical treatment of children with mental health problems that they've been advocating for so long?

Come on journalists - make him lay it all out.

'I cannot in any way trust anything that Starmer says on this issue.'

I feel exactly the same. I want to vote Labour but just don't trust them an inch

I still think that he told Ian from Stonewall to go on and defend his position to the media and by royally fucking that up and creating the shitshow last week he has had to admit he cannot defend the indefensible and here we are.

This ideology runs through Labour like words through a stick of rock. It’s so entrenched. You’ve only got to look at the unions to understand this. Some carefully chosen words at the top does nothing to dispel the institutional misogyny at ground roots level.

So did Rishi Sunak flounder at this simple definition. Do you disbelieve him now he's changed his mind?

Labour is now in the same position as the Conservatives. Both have their TRAs and MRAs, both have leaders who now know what a woman is and have said so. Both were talking about introducing self-id and have now ruled it out.

The LibDems and the Greens are yet to step up - and their GC members are still fighting hard.

What a lot of back-peddling going on...there is a lot more ground for them to back-pedal over, but it is positive that this might (hopefully) allow some of the debate to actually happen out in the open.

Small victories...I understand the lack of trust and cynical responses, but I don't think we should underestimate the knock on effects that this could have. This is just another small chip out of the Stonewall but these small chips add up.

😂

What's that Yorkshire phrase: 'he can make his mouth say anything, that one'.

I wonder what he'll define women as tomorrow.

I'll bet you anything you like Stonewall have been handed much soothing rhetoric about 'we have to lie and say nasty things to the nasty bastards until we get elected, but don't worry, it's only a means to an end. As soon as we get into power we'll do what we promised you and what you funded us to do '

I agree we need to find out exactly what each and every word means, as the term 'safe spaces' is dubious, and suspicious. And the lack of opening out into the Cass report disappointing and also suspicious.

Still at least the lack of shrieks of bigots is enabling the shedding of so much more light on the sorry mess they've got us into.

😅

Guardian loose transcript of the interview.

Great article which charts Starmer's huge number of changes in position on gender questions [it was done before the latest one]. He really has been everywhere.

As Keir Starmer tries to cool the trans issue, his ‘flip flop’ reputation risks hotting up
By Paul Waugh Chief Political Commentator
https://archive.is/sCRcg

No sorry, too late. I don’t believe a single thing he says, he’s noted he might need to flip flop to save his own arse, that’s all. Which doesn’t mean I have written off the Labour Party, just not with him in charge.

General election in the offing? 🤣🤣

I know. the thing is public services affect women more too. stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Nope

Until he uses the phrase "single sex safe spaces" I'm not interested

This is another step forward. The battle is shifting to new ground. The war is not over though. So we get to celebrate a win so lets do that. So don't be too cynical though I know it is tempting

What win are we supposed to be celebrating exactly @fromorbit ?

He has begrudgingly ceded a woman is a human female, but given until five minutes ago his definition was that some women can have penises he may still think that females can have penises.

He doesn't get to be cheered for what on the surface seems another sleight of hand.

Especially when he then moved straight into safe spaces instead of single sex spaces.

So I'm going to remain as cynical as i was before i listened to him.

I would hold of on your Starmer cheerleading for now.

Funny how the loss at Uxbridge have nudged them to rethink various things

They can jump. Zero trust there.

I'm afraid multiple politicians and establishment resources have tried that one. You later find out that they believe in single sex provisions, BUT believe that men are any sex they say they are.

So it sounds lovely.... but it isn't for women.

It's better than the pink unicorn glitter previously on offer but Labour has lost my trust and there's a lot of ground they need to make up.

A poster the other day meant legal sex when they said yes to this

Need to watch even words like sex and female which is ridiculous

Starmer, everyone knows what a woman is. The word for someone who claims men can be woman is 'liar'.