Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

[ACatCalledPushka]

Well done to the hotel staff. ‘trans ‘woman’ given key to the unisex changing room instead of the female changing room ‘trans woman’ not happy.

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

@DarkDayforMN i did also concede Anne shouldn’t be in changing rooms with young girls

If it wasn't previously obvious you were on a wind-up, this ignorant and offensive comment amply confirms it. No, you don't 'get a sense' of danger in all situations - were this so, then the number of female victims of assault wouldn't be as disproportionately high as it is.

If you 'get as sense as [these things] happen' that something's awry then by that point it's a bit bloody late to do anything about it, isn't it?

A natal male in a woman's changing space would 'a sense' of something being 'off' to the extent of klaxons, flashing red lights and bells going off.

You're having a laugh, right?

What about old girls like me? I’m a couple of years younger than Anne but feel no kinship with him or any other man invading my single-sex spaces.

That trans woman does not have a right to watch female patrons of the hotel undress. What an entitled piece of shit they are!

This

Beautifully put.

“A sense of something being off” is no help when you’re trapped in a room with a man who is much bigger and stronger than you. Better they stay out altogether, let us keep our spidey senses for every other place and occasion we need them, and switch them off in our safe single-sex toilets and changing rooms. Surely?

Oh! And for those women who have asked which of the three Mecure hotels in Sheffield is the one with the sensible employee, I think it’s most likely the St Paul’s one.

My rationale is that only 2/3 have a pool and St Paul’s is a) closer to the swimming competition venue and b) is a modern building (more likely to have disabled access/single user/gender neutral spaces than a period building).

Personally, I have sent a card to both hotels with pools, it says something like this:

‘just a note to thank the female employee who rightly prioritised the safeguarding of women and girls over the desires of adult male with a transgender identity - if this note has arrived at the wrong Mecure hotel please encourage your own staff to follow her brave example’

So you’re ok with him there with other women not girls?

Why?

i did also concede Anne shouldn’t be in changing rooms with young girls

but you’re defending him! And you are inventing hypothetical situations that you’d be okay with to distract from the real situation that you agree is not okay. You’re defending this male person even though you know his behaviour is wrong; why is that? You should really have a think about it. This instinct to defend men at all costs is not going to serve you well in life.

It's a most pathetic and deliberately deceitful strawman for Anne to even suggest/respond seriously to the myth that 'the government is considering banning transwomen from using public toilets'.

I can categorically guarantee and reassure Anne that, wherever there are public toilet facilities, nobody at all will be banned from using them: there will always be a section that is suitable for and available to you - just look for the signs to see which is the appropriate one for you to use, according to your sex.

its genuinely not a wind up. I’m not sure where I stand on the issue in a personal sense eg Women’s bathrooms on an ideological. Taking kids out of the scene. I don’t know why this always happens to me I talk to people and it ends up I’m doing all this stuff that I’m not

Just for information, I think that Anne has had ‘gender confirmation surgery’ (quoted from own blog) although it isn’t specified what this entailed ( could be breast implants for example).

Personally, I don’t really see what difference any male body modification makes in terms of their ‘safety’ for women. Sarah Jane Baker , (‘punch a TERF’) has had full genital surgery. Ruth Pearce, who advocates for women continuing to take testosterone during pregnancy in spite of any potential harm to thé fétus, performs a self composed song which celebrates not ‘missing my 🐓, not missing my 🏀 s’.

Maybe it’s not just the physical development caused by the testosterone surge at male puberty which is permanent?

Also worth noting that the St Paul’s branch is noted as having ‘Halal friendly features’ on a specialist Halal booking site, so I would imagine that the hotel is well aware of competing rights and has some sort of risk assessment/impact assessment policy?

Giving Anne access to a third space for undressing/changing is obvs the best answer in a venue that advertises itself as suitable for Islamic guests:

https://en.halalbooking.com/mercure-sheffield-st-pauls-hotel-spa/p/45859

For comparison, the other Mecure branch with a pool appears on the site but does not have any verified Halal features advertised:

https://en.halalbooking.com/mercure-sheffield-kenwood-hall-spa/p/45690

Then perhaps read what you write before you hit the 'post' button.

If you can't see how gratuitously offensive a comment that 'you just know when someone's dangerous' is to women who have been victims of rape and sexual assault, then I can't help you.

Very big of you. Will you concede women have human rights too, or is that a step too far?

You need to find the inner beryl thread possibly. I'm guessing you don't have children.

My children are not props for men to use in their fantasies - be they sexual or due to mental ill health. The swim coaches who let this happen all need to fired (or their clubs go bustbwhen parents find out and pull their daughters out).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3412053-Mumsnet-FWR-Guide-to-De-Programming-Yourself-From-Self-Harming-Kindness

Ta da!

And kids will ALWAYS be present in changing rooms and toilets with their mothers. What's the point of discussing hypotheticals that bear no relation to reality?

@NicCageisnotNickCave now that's fwr levels of impressiveness right there! Thank you 🙏

Just for information, I think that Anne has had ‘gender confirmation surgery’ (quoted from own blog) although it isn’t specified what this entailed ( could be breast implants for example).

For all we know, this could just as easily refer to 'self-identified' 'gender confirmation surgery' - it makes no more or less sense than the 'self-identified' 'gender' situation.

India Willoughby is most insistent that India has a cervix - quite how and why any surgeon would/could have facilitated that in reality is a mystery to anybody, unless of course it is just yet another case of 'I say it, and that makes it true'.

It's fairly straight forward.

Is it ok for this person (who has open access to two facilities, one to validate their not identifying as male) to require ALL THREE spaces, when this will leave some female people with no access at all?

Their argument is quite simply that they matter and women don't.

I think this is what stops me getting involved in this issue at all. It’s completely overwhelming

Reading through Anne’s blog I was struck by his total inability to be empathetic. He writes about his anxiety about coming out as a transwoman at work and in the swimming club, and I accept it must have required a huge amount of courage to start that conversation with others. Anna writes quite movingly about the understanding and compassion he met at work and the swimming group, from both colleagues and friends, who were both accepting and kind to him.

Yet despite the kindness and compassion shown to him he is unable to either recognise it, reciprocate or consider paying it back. He is for example set on using the womens changing room at the swimming club, and goes through the motions of asking female members if they have objections to this, presumably with the implication that if there are objections Anna will be the one to make other arrangements. However, a brave swimming group member did object , and what is more confided that her objection was largely based on a previous trauma which she worried would be triggered by him. Does Anna give a fuck and accept that his presence in the changing room is untenable? No. Anna’s response is to press the woman to meet and “discuss” the issue . The two “compromise”, but it is , as far as Anna is concerned, only a temporary measure, and it is clear that Anna is going to push and push until he gets his own way, with full access to the female changing room even if it causes a woman who has been kind to him undue stress and suffering.

Anna writes about how he hated his male body growing up, felt uncomfortable about natural bodily changes , but has that been transferred into a sensitivity about how other young people might feel about their changing bodies ,and a willingness to acknowledge this and reduce anxiety in young women by choosing not to enter female changing rooms during competition meets ? Again no. Anna does what Anna wants and what Anna thinks he is entitled to do.

Anna is not a very nice person, probably wasn’t a very nice person in his previous life, but nothing has changed, apart from the clothes.

This is such a valid point and @Boiledbeetle 's earlier post.

This damaging ideology is trying to force women and children to ignore the danger signals. The TRAs and MRAs did a good job in making us feel shamed and embarrassed at even thinking something is not right let alone voicing our fears and speaking out. It is one of the most sinister aspects in my mind. Remember the posters last year in the universities? Instructing the women to say nothing and don't stare if they believe someone is in their toilets and changing rooms that they feel shouldn't be there! How fucking demeaning to women and girls.

'cervix' is Latin for 'neck'. The cervix is this case being the neck of the womb.

Quite how a person could have a cervix without ever having had a womb is a great puzzle to me. Or, how would a surgeon construct a cervix? From what?