Entitled male refused access to female changing area (despite wearing skirt)

[ACatCalledPushka]

Well done to the hotel staff. ‘trans ‘woman’ given key to the unisex changing room instead of the female changing room ‘trans woman’ not happy.

https://twitter.com/anneicoombes/status/1683090524641566721?s=46&t=5tHsrgY5T97exTqeFD4LWg

I’m concerned about why the government is doing this

Just you get a sense about these things as they happen don’t you

So Anne gives off a sense of being unthreatening, in your opinion? Genuinely curious about this.

(personally I would find the fact of a man being in the women’s changing room a clear signal that he is a threat but let’s set the obvious aside for a moment.)

As an adult yes your gut feeling honed through years of growing up knowing men shouldn't be in women's spaces will help you. If you are a child now you are being told to ignore that feeling of unease, to ignore why you feel uncomfortable about the naked man claiming to be a woman in front of you. Their sense of things is being eroded by all this men can be women, women can be men stuff.

That’s what I wondered.

@DarkDayforMN no not Anne particularly, if I was in the situation of a male being in the women’s bathroom

Do you get this sense about the male in the op?

Also what do you think we are teaching girls if we say we don’t care if you’re scared

It’s normalising males in their space backed by those they rely on for safeguarding

So why wasn't the unisex changing room good enough?

I might be wrong but he was given a key to the room. That makes me think it’s single occupancy.

Not how hotel spas work. And have you somehow missed the conversation about him being in changing rooms full of teenage girls at a swimming competition? You can’t have missed that; you were talking about it.

Why are you going on about single occupancy changing rooms at this point when there’s loads of evidence, which you are aware of, that this person is more than happy to invade spaces where women and girls are changing?

no not Anne particularly

So if you don’t think Anne is unthreatening why are you here on this thread talking about “unthreatening males”?

The man who invades changing rooms has a good point? In what universe?

How do you know?

In the bizarro universe. I thought my sarcasm in the response to that person’s demand for “balance” was pretty clear.

But this isn't about a clothed man in a bathroom, it's about a naked man in a changing room where you also will be naked at least part of the time.

Would that really not bother you?

This is a man who has publicly gone out of his way to destroy a woman trying to do her job. That woman went to work on that day never expecting to have to deal with this and I'll
Bet as a result of his behaviour in refusing to go to the obvious unisex changing faculty, she is probably getting all sorts of threats, worries about her job, her own future. All because he wanted to change be in a room of women who expected to be completely comfortable taking their clothes off that day in a safe environment. What madness, what arrogance!

I suppose it’s the way I have conversations.

It would definitely bother me if he hasn’t had full reassignment surgery. If he has, maybe I would feel okay in that situation. Not sure though

The numbers of late transitioning men who have surgery is vanishingly small. There's a 95% chance that he still retains all of those body parts that mark him out as male.

If, and it's a big if, he's had any surgery, it's far more likely to be breast augmentation or laser hair removal.

How are you going to know if he’s had surgery, are you going to ask him, a stranger, if he’s had his bits inverted? Ask to have a look? Or do you think he’ll provide you with some paperwork as he enters the room?

I suppose it’s the way I have conversations

so your response to a real life not-unthreatening man, upsetting actually existing teenage girls by watching them undress, is…

that you personally wouldn’t be bothered by a hypothetical unthreatening man in women’s clothes in the same toilet as you, or in single occupancy changing rooms.

I guess it’s good to work out what your personal boundaries are but your boundaries don’t have much relevance to this thread!

Why would it matter is he had or had not has "full" surgery?

Does that mean it's okay for impotent males to invade women's spaces?
Males with no penis due to cancer surgery etc?
Gay males who wouldn't be interested in females sexually?
Asexual males?

Just because he doesn't have the relevant parts anymore, does that make him somehow not male? Does it mean that he won't be looking at the women in there, or making them uncomfortable?

Honestly, for those saying "it wouldn't bother ME", well, that's great.
But it bothers a LOT of women, and women's rights are not yours to give away.

We get it, @Annaishere - you’re cool, you’re open-minded, you really really CARE about the most marginalised oppressed people on the planet. That’s wonderful, but you don’t get to give away my single-sex spaces just because you’re happy to share them with men.

Quite a lot of Anne’s internet footprint is about Anne forcibly inserting Anneself into women’s spaces and sports, regardless of the objections of actual female women.
The rest is computer programming and football.

if Anne’s long suffering wife is reading this, I recommend she seek out the Trans Widow’s support threads.

And if the two adult children Anne fathered come across this should be able to access some non judgemental psychological support via Genspect (and find some recognisable lived experiences via Children of Transitioners)

@Annaishere

‘There’s a book by a psychiatrist about a man that thought he was a lamp or something’

Would that be ‘ The man who mistook his wife for a hat’ by any chance?

I can see you have thought deeply about this and done thorough research into the possible psychological issues…..

As others have said, anyone can be as cool and inclusive as they damned well like, but they still don't get to give my rights away.

Do you know the book 'The Gift of Fear' by Gavin de Becker? It's a good book, worth a read. One of the things he says makes so much sense:

Can you imagine an animal reacting to the gift of fear the way some people do, with annoyance and disdain instead of attention? No animal in the wild suddenly overcome with fear would spend any of its mental energy thinking 'It's probably nothing'

Intuition is always right in at least two important ways; it is always in response to something and it has your best interests at heart.

When our intuition is screaming at us that something is wrong, there's a bloody good reason for that.

It’s good to know that cool, laid back, fetish positive women are ready and willing to share the gender neutral third space with Anne and pals.

It means us hairy legged, wrinkly old uptight terves and swerves can keep the ladies facilities cock & balls free for girls, women who have orthodox/conservative religious beliefs, women who have suffered the trauma of males violence and any other female who prefers a single sex space without any guilt at all!

This is a man who has publicly gone out of his way to destroy a woman trying to do her job. That woman went to work on that day never expecting to have to deal with this and I'll bet as a result of his behaviour in refusing to go to the obvious unisex changing faculty, she is probably getting all sorts of threats, worries about her job, her own future.

It's always the same narrative in cases like this, where somebody who hasn't been able to get their way over somebody serving them goes to their manager and effectively says "I don't want them to get into A LOT of trouble (because I'm such a wonderfully reasonable person), but I DO want them to be clearly reprimanded and publicly humiliated, to prove that I was right."

The employee didn't make a single mistake and executed her job perfectly: somebody asked for a key to the changing room and she gave an appropriate one - there being two appropriate changing rooms for everybody of either sex (notwithstanding additional needs for those with disabilities).

In fact, she should be commended for her initiative and diplomacy, in seeing that the male making the request was dressed as a woman, and so guessing that he would probably feel more comfortable not instantly being given the key for the men's changing room, but would rather feel happier in the unisex room.

Lots of people would be perfectly fine in the unisex room; plenty of others would prefer to use the room exclusively for their own sex; exactly what innocent reason could there possibly be for somebody to be arrogantly expecting - and complaining as a result of being 'denied' - to be granted access to the one room out of three which is manifestly not appropriate for them? If Anne doesn't consider the unisex room to be good enough for Anne, then exactly who does Anne expect to ever be using that facility?