Friend's child. Is this worrying?

[namechange102938]

I'm probably opening a can of worms here but I would really like to hear from others on this.

The situation is this:

My lovely female friend is married to another woman. They had a DD. When DD was 3, they had a DS. DD had always been more interested in trucks than dolls. After DS was born, DD started saying that she was a boy too. The parents immediately switched to male pronouns and within the year they've changed the child's name to a boy name and even changed the birth certificate and the passport, erasing the child's birth identity. We're in a liberal US state.

I have trans friends, but they were all adults when they transitioned so I don't know what the healthy approach is for children. At 3 years old it seems to me that there's a possibility that being a boy was appealing since the only boy in the house (the new baby) was naturally getting a lot of attention. Also, a love of trucks and a dislike of dolls surely shouldn't matter.

I know my friends deeply love their children and think they're doing what's best for the child. I'm just concerned that perhaps the child isn't trans, but it would now be very difficult for him to change his mind. Changing the name and the birth certificate feels unnecessary at this stage. It seems to me that it send a message a child might interpret as 'they love me as DS more than they loved me as DD, so I can never be DD again no matter how I feel'.

Ironically, it seems very binary and limiting. They're already planning to use puberty blockers. The child takes part in trans events and has a whole identity based around this one part of him even though he's now just 7.

Do many very young trans children change their minds? Does this seem concerning or am I just out of touch?

We all know this child is not trans.
This is the result of a lot of older men who transitioned later in life, but instead of saying its agp because they know people will avoid them, they rewrite history and tell everyone they knew as a very young child they were trans.
Its bullshit, we all know this.

Very worrying. My 3 year old says she's all kinds of things. Poor kid

I think for the child to rapidly de-transition would be an almost impossible step for this family.

but trans-kids can become non-binary kids who don't fit any pattern and haven't decided what to do. I would promote non-binary role models to the child & parents, because that will give them all a 'way out' if or when they are ready to take it.

My son did much the same - wanted to be like his older sister. He would announce "My sister's a girl, and I'm a girl and Daddy's a robot"

(DH was a bit put out... )

That poor child. Realistically, I'm not sure that parents this far down the transing such a young child rabbit hole would be able to step back and listen or reconsider?
Have a listen to Helen Joyce (author of Trans, when ideology meets reality) talking about parents who transition their children. It's a hard listen but I fear is very realistic:

https://www.tiktok.com/@peterboghossian/video/7252427901528771883

No, it is wrong cultish behaviour. I loved trucks, planes, cars and wore boy clothes and a baseball cap and was called a boys Nick name until my teens. No one thought I was actually a boy. I’m totally not a man now just a normal person who isn’t big on dresses.

I could understand going along with the child's desire to "be a boy" - before they sexually mature, I would imagine there is a lot of fluidity in how kids see themselves, its all about social stereotypes at this age so can be anything - dresses, boys clothes... my friend's kid wanted told everyone he was a lion, for example... but changing all the legal documents and even planning puberty blockers for someone who is 7???? this is really not good at all, and is definitely really harmful to the child. how is it even allowed?

That seems a good idea.

Your friend isn't "lovely" nor is she an "amazing loving mom". She's a fucked-up child abuser and so is her wife. Cut them out.

And how will that help the child?

Honestly, OP, I would take a step back from them, especially if you have children yourself.

It doesn't sound like they're going to be receptive to even gentle questioning at this point, as they've demonstrated in their reaction to other loved ones expressing concern.

Of course still read up on it all, but I would be thinking about stepping back from the friendship as there's nothing you'll be able to do except sit there and watch it all unfold.

There will be a lot of holding your tongue in order to maintain a friendship that's conditional upon your silence on the issue and on compliance with the fiction, which will only get more and more complicated to do as the child grows up.

The situation just breaks my heart. We've been friends a long time, before the kids were born. I can see stepping back a bit from the friendship but I care too much about all of them to break it off. If the child does start to push back on this, he'll need support.

My two closest friends each have a child of a trans flavor. One is a male who went from non-binary to now woman-identifying. The other is a classic ROGD 13 year old girl. In some ways, this is easier than your friends because it was not parent initiated, it was COVID and internet influenced. However, both want to be good ally parents and one is terrified because her son already attempted suicide as a younger teen. I simultaneously bite my tongue when needed and drip feed reason when I feel I can. It most definitely has broken my heart and made these friendships really difficult to navigate but what keeps me going is their kids. Whatever I can do to chink a crack in their belief, I do because the thought of damaged children scares me more. The young man has already started hormones and his health is deteriorating but now his dad now agrees with me that the medical transition is dangerous. I don't know the future but I can't give up on them.

You can start by accidentally forgetting the pronouns. Or talk about how you loved [boy stereotype toy] as a kid.

I live in the US too and this is sadly getting common. It's child abuse. Let kids be kids when they are adult they can be whoever they want. I think in a way it's similar to munchausen by proxy. It gets the parents attention

Absolutely batshit. I have no words. That poor girl.

If this is real then it is more than a bit worrying.
It's abuse.
But you can't tackle it head on. You might need to remind the parents to love their child however the child identifies i.e. remind them to remind the child that they loved her as a girl, they love her as a boy and they'll always love her whether she's a girl or a boy.

The child needs to be loved unconditionally sooner rather than later but this is not your kid... so... you can only watch from the sidelines.

And if you want to see the point of view of the parents, go to reddit. There you'll be advised to follow the child to the end of the rainbow. This might help understand why the parents just can't see that they've backed their child into a corner with no escape.

It’s so fucking regressive. Girl likes trucks so she must be a boy. It’s disgusting and depressing.

It's just crazy. How anyone can do this to a young child is beyond me. How so many people can collude with the parents and allow it to happen shows what a shit show this has all become.

I'm sure he/she is fine now, cos 7 is an age when your sex doesn't really affect you, and you can be anything and like anything because it doesn't matter.
When I was a kid I loved all the boy things, was mistaken for a boy often (quite liked that, I saw girly things as lesser, how's that for internalised misogyny?), now I'm married with children (which I didn't want until I was in my 30's), I still love those things (I'm a builder, I also like to cook... What does that make me?).
The category of activities you enjoy and a harmless fictional statement based on a new sibling and lacking any wider implication context because you're 3, is crap thing to base serious medical intervention on.
Why shouldn't someone like me who one day needed to use their healthy non-medically tampered with womb and enjoy relaxed and satisfying sex life be interested in trucks, wrestling and Lego without someone throwing me into a pathway where my perfectly functional female body would be doctored, altered, and caused to develop differently in a way which causes sexual and reproductive problems (not to mention all the other endocrine functions which will be interfered with) and require a lifetime of medication?
Puberty is tough enough without this crap laid on top and if the poor child has any doubts whether this is the path for them, there is no room for them to be voiced or entertained at all because it's already a done deal Just awful.

Sorry but your friends are fools. My sister loved cars and action man. She refused to wear dresses or skirts and had a short haircut and had an alter ego with a boys name. Our parents shrugged and bought her whatever she wanted.

today she would be d”sent down the slippery slope and she’d be my brother… (or probably not as my parents were pretty level headed)

why can’t they see this? I assume they weren’t little barbie princesses as children…

Asking innocent questions that nudge away from their path for drugs. Only nudge, they have to come to the information themselves . Direct opposition will not work.

Eg:oh that's interesting how does that work? Are there any side effects? What will happen if...

Yes, this is what I've tried to do. It's a very tense topic though.

One of the moms grew up in a red state and I think part of this is a reaction to that strict, conservative upbringing. Of course, questioning anyone's parenting choices is always touchy anyway, but this especially so. There's also a bunch of political stuff in the mix too. I was shocked how easy it was to alter the sex on the birth certificate, no medical letter or court certification needed. That's when I started to be concerned. It feels odd for anyone, even a parent, to alter something like that. Surely that should be up to the individual when they're of an age to make that choice for themselves. My DD (21) has pointed out that if it's easy to change it once, it would be easy to change it back if necessary. My DD has grown up in this environment and is more relaxed about the situation, though did agree that medical intervention is a concern. That's not happening yet though, just being talked about.

I should say that my kids would probably both be considered gender fluid in some circles. DS (18) paints his nails, sometimes wears makeup, has a skirt or two in his wardrobe. DD isn't 'girly', boxes, dates boys and girls. I'm totally open to kids defining themselves. This situation with my friend just feels like they're putting the child in a restrictive box, which is so strange to me when they're a lesbian couple who have pushed against societal norms all their lives.

The problem is that there is no 'off ramp' for the child, the therapists affirm, the teachers affirm, the doctors affirm and if the parents start the process then the conclusion - puberty blockers of which 98% (tavistock data) lead to cross sex hormones (injected testosterone) which lead on to surgeries. They argue that puberty blockers are reversible but that may be true with only a few months use, but these children are often on them for years.

Puberty blockers are Lupron which has led to class action lawsuits against drug companies and also paired up with cross sex hormones leads to sterility.

Perhaps you could ask if they have looked into the side effects of puberty blockers and get them to do some research.

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/georgia-woman-says-drug-used-to-treat-endometriosis-led-to-series-of-health-problems/859263892/

https://www.ktnv.com/news/investigations/more-women-come-forward-with-complaints-about-lupron-side-effects

You could try bringing up all the other countries that have recently reviewed the use of blockers and then banned them or severely restricted their use as a result - the UK and several of the Scandinavian countries I believe, but don't remember the full list? And also that stats show around 80% of kids with diagnosed gender dysphoria outgrow it by the end of puberty if not medicated? Things like that that might gently and gradually get them to question whether they are sure their daughter won't ever change her mind or decide she was mistaken? And also ask if they've seen any of the testimony of detransitioners such as Chloe Cole?