The amount of women condoning prostitution

[Thatgirl1981]

Well I seen it all now when your told
well maybe they enjoyed seeking explicit pictures on line

and all the young people do it

someone is on drugs is selling pictures of themselves to fund that habit parents are in disparate because consent is given then morals be dammed

I often wonder if you consent to be murdered people who just say well they consented 🤷🏿‍♂️

Even though we are talking about women involved in prostitution here, there seems to be, amongst trans activists, an almost positive attitude towards prostitution - re-named as 'sex work'. I think part of the reason for this is that quite a high percentage of males with trans identities seem to be involved in selling sex. Men seem to have a different attitude towards prostitution than women, and cannot see the situation from a female perspective.

I'm thinking of the numerous TW who have said they got involved in prostitution very young, and laterly went on to fund their surgeries through it. I'm thinking of Paris Lees, amongst others.

https://www.attitude.co.uk/news/world/paris-lees-dedicates-her-honorary-doctorate-to-sex-workers-289611/

Maybe the good men don't have friends or colleagues that buy women for sex, or don't discuss their love of pornography over lunch at their desks? Maybe I've been lucky in my workplaces but I've worked with plentry of men and its never come up.

My husband is a good man, what form is this "speaking out" to take? Should he get a sign and start preaching in the High Street or interrupt his mate Bob when theyre discussing farming and lecture him on the evils of sex work? Strangely, being a good man, he tries to lead his life and choose his friends in a way that the topic rarely comes up.

Now if you were talking about calling out everyday sexism you'd have a point.

@DisquietintheRanks "Maybe the good men don't have friends or colleagues that buy women for sex, or don't discuss their love of pornography over lunch at their desks?"

No off colour jokes? No stag weekends? Lucky man.

@CurlewKate stag do- maybe 40 years ago. And given that he's the only man in his current team, I don't really think he's the right person to lecture if one of the others make an off colour joke.

This news story is a case in point. All the men I know don't want to discuss it, it's private to him, we don't know what happened, yadda yadda

A "That's grim. Wouldn't have thought he'd be that kind of man" would be enough.

Instead this "innocent until proven guilty" / "its not a crime" approach permeates everything which supports sleazy men.

It's very depressing.

I don't know the type of man in my family/friends/partners who go on stag dos or go down the pub in big laddy groups, or have that locker room mentality of talking about women. there are plenty around everywhere.

I'm glad there are so many good men about. I have a good man too, but he certainly has colleagues who do go on that sort of stag do and so on. He must just be unlucky.

Why then, are we thinking about making policy the sex industry to accommodate the "bad" men?

How do you all know that the men in your life don’t go to strip clubs, have/use sex workers, watch porn, talk about women disparagingly IRL or online.

I genuinely do not know what the men I know do when I’m not there, so I don’t put them in a good man/bad man categories.
Just like I don’t put women, plenty of women who have misogynistic views are also around, once I know that - I avoid them.

Also, isin’t it kind of a win to the patriarchy when you go singing the praises of the men in your life?
Why is there a need to convince anyone, or yourself, that they are ’good one’s’?

Every single thing I have said in relation to this is in regards to men. Men selling themselves, men buying sex from other men, men cleaning toilets.

Expressing disappointment at a son because he either becomes a sex worker or toilet cleaner, does not mean that I am a misogynist who thinks women are domestic appliances. That is quite a stretch.

The only women affected by this particular scandal are the female relatives of all parties involved, because the sex is being sold by and bought by men.

There is no comparison between sex workers and toilet cleaners

Giving men orgasms isn't a job. Cleaning toilets is.

If my son was a cleaner I'd have no issues. It's hard work and a way of supporting himself. It's also a necessary job. Similar to bin man, mechanic, sewage engineer, builder, plumber, care worker.

All those things help society to function well and all of us to live and work in hygienic and pleasant surroundings.

Prostitution exists for men to use other peoples bodies for an orgasm. Its extremely exploitative and dangerous for people who are prostitutes, both physically and mentally. And it adds no benefit to wider society, in fact it causes damage by entrenching the view that mens penis needs are paramount.

Most sexworkers and their clients tend to be quiet and discreet when meeting up (either on a 1:1 or in brothels) as they don't wish to attract attention from the police or the public. Clients are just normal men who look like any other man (as opposed to the stereotype of old men in trench-coats like you see on TV), they aren't going to just "hang around" as there's no reason for them too.

And it still counts as a brothel(which means it can be raided and the sexworkers criminalised) even if the sexworkers work on different days and there is still only one present at any given time.

The people I used to take complaints from must have been making it up then because they claimed it was a real nuisance to have a stream of men, sometimes knocking on the wrong door, sometimes loud, sometimes unpleasant hanging around. Not to mention pimps and the problems they bring. They were only living nextdoor to a brothel so presumably you know better than them.

They is absolutely no comparison. And people who say "well it's better than [insert any other valid worker they want to insult]" are just thick; at best.

The other apologia is "lots of jobs are dangerous". So they are but those workers are there generally to keep us safe and/or provide essential services. And those workers are trained and supplied with specialist equipment.

Very true. Initially I was shocked when I found out some of the punters were virtually nextdoor neighbours (just a bit further down the road) and dads I'd see at the schoolgate whose wives were mums I'd talk to at the schoolgate. I'm pretty sure lots of women would be shocked at what the men in their lives get up to.

Why is the fact that a lot of men are liars as well as p*nters make this better?

They are scumbags. Society doesn't support women who are married to these men. There's loads of "oh maybe she knows", "he is probably not getting sex at home" etc etc. Very few people going "yes thats awful, absolutely you were right to kick him out"

I know as I'm divorced from one. We were married a long time, obviously I thought he was a "good man" rather than a sleazebag. I don't talk about the cause of the divorce often as if I do people get embarassed and don't want to discuss it really.

I live in a country where sex work is famously decriminalised. Yet there are still illegal brothels and those do occasionally get raided by the police - and the women working from them criminalised. Also it's the child porn capital of Europe and the epicenter of a staggering amount of human trafficking. So I am not convinced that decriminalisation solves any of the problems it's proponents claim.

If you are talking about Germany or the Netherlands, prostitution has not been decriminalised here. The only place that has decriminalised prostitution is New Zealand. I have heard that Belgium has also decriminalised prostitution recently.

It seems that in New Zealand pimps are going out of business because women prefer to work for themselves. The only remaining problem is with illegal migrant women but people are working to change that aspect of the law.

Men. Men know better. It is known.

Yes @BordoisAgain men telling feminists to shut up because se workers men should speak instead.

And they know best about living near sex work, when they don't. I also think a lot of them think they know and we don't because they talk to sex workers. At work. Whereas I talk to sex workers over a cup of tea, or in an office or somewhere else they aren't being paid to lie. Away from pimps and punters, away from men. I hear how punters are. And it's not quiet and decent as some would like us to believe.

If you have to pay a sex worker to do something because an unpaid woman won't, be that your GF, DW or a stranger, have a think about what that means, men.

I don't condone prostitution but I don't think it should be illegal, just as I don't believe drugs should be illegal.

It won't stop those who want to do it, just ax making drugs illegal hadn't stopped the drug trade.

It's not a choice I would recommend but it's not for the state to impose that on adults. Trafficking excepted.

I'd rather allow people to make their own (imo) bad choices than be living under a nanny state. It's really hard to outlaw anyway, particularly the things like sugar daddy arrangements which is prostitution by another name imo.

"This news story is a case in point. All the men I know don't want to discuss it, it's private to him, we don't know what happened, yadda yadda"

I was one of the men who posted in regard to this specific case that I didn't regard it as any of my business, because apparently nothing illegal had occurred.

It can be preferable to discuss these issues in general terms, especially when the details of the behaviour are very unclear and had only been "reported" by a notorious scandal rag.

One can disapprove of prostitution in its various forms (and indeed, sexual behaviour in general if one finds it unethical or distasteful) without attacking individuals privately engaging in legal sexual behaviour.

I suspect that one recurring problem in these debates is that of "projection". Let's face it, sex is one of the more primitive aspects of human behaviour, something we have in common with vast numbers of cognitively cruder animals, and that crudity is reflected in the behaviour itself which is unhygienic, aesthetically ugly, often aggressive and quite often seems "disgusting" and "degrading" (to repeat terms frequently used in these threads).

There's a strong tendency to direct one's disgust at one's own sexual feelings onto other people and their behaviour, often with unconvincing justification. It would arguably be defensible if one's position was that sexuality in general is an unfortunate aspect of human nature that we should be striving to overcome through guided evolution (a position which I for one respect), but when it's a matter of quietly condoning one's own dirtiness while fuming at the dirtiness of others, it's time to step back and engage in more reasoning, less emotion.

@PurpleGreenandWhiteAreTheNewPrimaryColours "I'd rather allow people to make their own (imo) bad choices than be living under a nanny state."

How far do you go on this? Speeding? H&S? Food labelling?

Is discrete another word that means something else to Merl than everyone else?

I appreciate you’re more invested in this than I am, but I live in our red lights district and we must be so unusual as there is nothing discrete about the men kerb crawling and hassling women in the area.

I don't do anything in my own sex life that i think is disgusting or degrading. I'm an adult and have moved on from "eeewww sex! Yucky!"

I think paying for sex is disgusting. I think lying and cheating on your partner is unacceptable. So yes I judge Huw for both those things.

I think there are plenty of men out there who get off on degrading women. I don't think we should condone that attitude even if it happens in the context of a fully consenting sex life. I think if its between consenting adults it's not really my business. If it's a man paying a prostitute to do that, or choosing to seek out porn where women are degraded, then yes they are disgusting and I'm going to say that.

And society moving to this position: a matter of quietly condoning one's own dirtiness while fuming at the dirtiness of others, it's time to step back and engage in more reasoning, less emotion. and labelling people who do question other peoples sexual behaviours as "prudes" or "kink shaming" is why men get away with rape even when they've left physical damage. Or even murder. "She likes it rough, m'lud".