The amount of women condoning prostitution

[Thatgirl1981]

Well I seen it all now when your told
well maybe they enjoyed seeking explicit pictures on line

and all the young people do it

someone is on drugs is selling pictures of themselves to fund that habit parents are in disparate because consent is given then morals be dammed

I often wonder if you consent to be murdered people who just say well they consented 🤷🏿‍♂️

So are the kids being used to courier drugs and they are in danger like the prostitutes who can be women or men.

Cleaners and prostitutes can be male or female. Looking at the number of public toilets with the sign about male cleaners I'm assuming there must be a fair few male toilet cleaners.

Great post; I too get annoyed by the toilet cleaner comparison. Sanitation is the bedrock of civilsation.

I wonder how many other household name men, smugly married, wholesome and outwardly respectable, are getting a bit nervous about chapters of their past they'd like to keep quiet? Sick of men thinking they can get away with anything.

https://hivlawcommission.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/FinalReport-RisksRightsHealth-EN.pdf page 38

Sexwork is now more violent in Sweden and it is extremely difficult to convict clients because sexworkers are unwilling to testify against them. Sexworkers are still criminalised for working together, can be evicted and have their children taken off them.

Also legalisation is different from decriminalisation (used by NZ, some of Australia and now Belgium).

Sex trafficking is a huge problem in Nordic-Model Iceland, despite the fact it's a small country in the middle of nowhere (compared to Germany, large population bang in the centre of Europe).

https://www.icelandreview.com/news/iceland-destination-sex-trafficking-victims/

https://decrimnow.org.uk/open-letter-on-the-nordic-model/

Also this, a letter opposing the "Nordic Model" whose signatures include many sexworkers and sexworker groups.

My understanding is that criminal biker gangs control prostitution and the drugs trade in both Australia and New Zealand. It is a major problem. They get young women addicted to drugs and then pimp them out.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9708103/Sex-workers-say-Mob-owned-streets

A New Zealand woman speaks:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-41349301

That's not the only articles I've seen about things not being as wonderful in NZ as the pro- punter lobby would have us believe.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/teenagers-offer-cheap-sex/D53ZJUEEHELJUJQMQKQD3DNF2E/

"Since the Prostitution Reform Act decriminalized the entire sex trade in 2003, including pimps and brothel owners, society has been conditioned not to challenge the NZPC’s authority and narrative.

The organization has positioned itself as the voice of all women (and the few men) in the sex trade. This group of vocal, government-funded, relatively privileged women and their supporters insist we “listen to sex workers” and their “lived experience,” lest we be labelled ignorant, bigoted, or “whorephobic.” But “lived experience,” in this context, is limited to a narrative claiming prostitution is a “choice” that “empowers.”........

"These are not women aiming to cheat the system by dodging tax, like businessmen with tax havens — these are women who are struggling, yet being presented as “workers” like any other, thanks to decriminalization.
But when compared with any other industry, this “work” would be classified alongside sweatshops and conditions of those in forced labour situations.

What other “independent contractor” has standard 12 hour shifts where they cannot leave or take breaks, with intense pressure to never reject a “client,” and are eventually paid under 40 (sometimes only 30) per cent of the money they earned and told they must return the next shift to collect it? Women can end up being paid nothing at all or in debt to the brothel on a quiet night, where they only get one “client.” The accumulative penalties (which are routinely over-imposed) — “shift fees,” “laundry fees,” “clothing and appearance fines,” and “late fees” — that women must agree to pay in their contract see to that"

https://www.feministcurrent.com/2020/06/03/new-zealand-is-squandering-an-opportunity-to-help-women-in-prostitution-during-covid-thanks-to-decriminalization/

"NZPC is speaking for all women in prostitution, now rebranded as “sex workers.” But this also includes the “sensual masseuses,” the receptionists, the camgirls, the pole dancers who give the occasional private dance, the pimps, the BDSM mistresses, the phone-sex workers, and the madams who have never been smashed into a wall, choked in spa pool, fisted and spat on by a drunk man twice their size.

“Sex work” isn’t just a euphemism, it’s a cover-all to hide the reality that prostitution is just as violent, traumatic, and life-altering as it ever was. They call it “sex work” in order to legally support pimps, brothel owners, and all those that profit from our bodies, as though we are all in the same boat — they are us and we are them"

https://nordicmodelnow.org/testimonial/michelle-mara/

@Iwasafool Yes, prostitutes and other people in the sex industry can be men or women, although mostly women. The punters are almost exclusively male though. What's your point?

Selling used knickers online removes two of the most important parts; contact with punters and being identifiable.

And again, it's up to the women how they frame their experience. However, I know my friend who did magazines years ago feels exploited. She was young, with a shit home life and an abusive dad. Fodder essentially.

So are the kids being used to courier drugs and they are in danger like the prostitutes who can be women or men.

You compared prostitution and the drug trade, and seemed to be insinuating that women are the suppliers of the product and also the product itself.

Now that you're bringing some of the victims of the drug trade into the equation, I would argue that drugs are to the drug trade what misogyny is to prostitution.

So the children and addicts exploited by the drug trade would be the equivalent of the women (yes, and men) and children exploited in prostitution.

Funny how liberals and the middle class never recommend this riveting job to their own daughters
after all the women are happy it’s well paid and you can choose your holidays what’s not to love about sex work 🤷🏿‍♂️😡
same as being a engineer

Is this based on fact or speculation?

For starters, sexworkers in NZ won't accept a client who is drunk or under the influence of drugs, and any client who becomes violent would be arrested and charged by police (as well as having details shared amongst other sexworkers so they avoid taking a booking from him too).

In 2020 a NZ sexworker received a 6 figure sexual harassment comp payment. Sexworkers have rights in decriminalised NZ. They don't have to deal with drunks, or violent clients or sexual harassment. They can also report to the police without fear of being criminalised themselves (or being evicted or having their children taken off them).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55298303

Again, we have cunningly been manoeuvred into discussing legalisation of prostitution and women's choices.

Where the thread started talking about how use of sex workers is being condoned.

I'm going to leave the thread now because I find the pro-decrim conversation disingenuous and boring. Why not legalisation? We all know why not - because the amount of H&S requirements to make the job comply with the law would significantly impact the p*nters enjoyment of the experience. Which tells you all you need to know.

I am interested in the conversation about how we reduce the levels of entitlement men feel to sex. Prostitution is just one manifestation of that. Porn and rape are two others.

Also that's another difference between toilet cleaning and prostitution. People who clean toilets get to wear appropriate PPE and use appropriate materials (chemicals etc) to protect them from exposure to other people's bodily fluids.

It is an extract from the account from the woman working in prostitution in NZ, both before and after decriminalisation ( see links posted above).

@AdamRyan "I am interested in the conversation about how we reduce the levels of entitlement men feel to sex. Prostitution is just one manifestation of that. Porn and rape are two others."

Indeed. Nobody ever wants to talk about the men. Oh, unless we forget to mention that men can be exploited and trafficked too.

Decrim gives sexworkers more control; and is the model advocated for by human rights orgs, health and anti-HIV orgs (any form of criminalisation for example leads to less condom use and more STDs, as condoms are used as evidence), anti-trafficking orgs and sexworkers themselves.

Sex worker orgs = pimps

It doesn't give them more control; it gives them less; and that is according to the women involved in it. Read the account I posted by Michelle Mara above.

I wonder whether the beeb's five day silence was spent in a huddle with lawyers and crisis PR experts.

The same men who say TWAW are also saying: nothing illegal, private matter, bekind. The reputation management seems to be working well.