Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Can you C&P? I'm not on Twitter and you can't see content any more without an account. I've tried Nitter but nothing has come up for that poster.

The scholar Michael Bailey wrote a book called The Man who would be Queen in the early 2000s. It discussed certain aspects of human sexuality and is seen as controversial by TRAs. Bailey suffered personal consequences for his book. Alice Dreger documented the controversy in this article, published in a peer-reviewed journal: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-007-9301-1

Absolutely agree. That’s the irony. I think this is going to go one of two ways. Either people will be forced back into ‘the closet’ by a return to beliefs from the past or (more likely, I think) woman will become completely fucking obsolete.

It’s not enough that men have ruled the world for 1000s of years, they now want to take us literally over.

Incidentally, do trans men behave like this? I think we all know the answer.

Posting for updates.
Am just astonished by this whole bizarre situation..

There's only one phobic person in this story. And it's not OP.

Quite. It’s absolutely possible to think the behaviour of this trans woman to be atrocious, without it being based in transphobia. To call it such is lazy and so boring.

Surely it should have become a police matter at this point, an employee has barricaded themselves into the office(in the USA this never ends well) after causing damage to the IT system, may be a danger to himself and certainly to the business.

After the "How did you get free coffee?" thought, my next thought was about this person alone in the office. Is/are there any information/personal effects they could get their hands on? Or worse, are they likely to do damage, to themselves or otherwise?

I hope things have calmed down and this hasn't blown back on you all.

So from a psychological perspective this is someone who's addiction/behaviour is escalating and now disorganising very fast, which would imply a breakdown coming. I suspect you all did the right thin in stepping back and leaving the premises rather than provide an audience/escalate things any further.

It is difficult as it is a behaviour thing not a TQ thing - the TQ part should be irrelevant, as the behaviour is unacceptable regardless of who does it - but unfortunately it is the ideology and special protections around someone who is T doing this behaviour that makes it a TQ thing. Without the enablements and enforcing of others to participate in personal fictions, whether sincere ones or intentionally manipulative ones, and for it to be very risky and difficult to have boundaries and keep them, this couldn't happen.

India Willoughby has spoken in previous years about their work drying up because of individuals within these protections creating behaviours and difficulties that make employers and commissioning people wary of employment of a TQ person. Pattern recognition and not wanting to deal with other people's dramas and behaviours is not a prejudice, the workplace and other employees don't want or need it when they're there to get the job done. The only way to fix it though is for the TQ community to be clear about inappropriate behaviour is not a part of being TQ, and be clear about the protections etc not enabling a TQ person to behave badly while everyone else is gagged and has their hands tied together to prevent them having boundaries and managing it appropriately. It would be like the employment rights of the disabled, and of women - we may need some specific adaptations to be able to access, but the desire to was to be given the respect of being treated exactly the same as everyone else instead of a special guest/pet and othered in that way.

But it won't happen, the cake and eating it too rolls on.

Whose, not who's, sorry. I can hear all the teeth grate.

I have been working since 1995 (with childcare breaks) and have never, ever heard of someone deliberately locking their colleagues out!!! (Accidentally - yes, obviously!) I cannot see how Ginny can carry on working here. If they were an established employee, I would imagine counselling and mental health support would be offered but as a new employee, wouldn't they just be shown the door?

Glad we sorted out the free coffee thing, that was my first question too! 😀
Second question - how have the male colleagues reacted to this? Let's hope they don't think this "proves" Ginny is a woman! 🙄

I think some companies are just getting carried away with it - they believe strongly that they are the good guys and that ultimately this is way society is headed and therefore good for the business.

This whole thread has rendered me speechless. What a shit show.

Fingers crossed you get a new job quickly op.

I’m horrified by what I’m reading but so glad you are getting so much support from here and your colleagues are in the same page (so you know it’s not you being unreasonable). The best outcome for this is that each and every one of you look for another job (preferably leaving close to each other) and this silly man’s business goes to pot. He does not deserve to have you all working and putting up with this nonsense to keep his business afloat. Let him be a two person business. He and his ‘wonder woman’ deserve each other and should be left to run the business themselves. Finding another job would be top priority to me. Good luck 💐

‘India Willoughby has spoken in previous years about their work drying up because of individuals within these protections creating behaviours and difficulties that make employers and commissioning people wary of employment of a TQ person. ‘

motes and beams there, I think.

This is all simply from my experience. And it sounds like it has been handled appallingly in your company.

First, being moved to the "desk near the boss" has always been due to issues with peoples work - you only get moved where the boss can keep a close eye on your if you're shirking your responsibilities!

Second. The first time I worked with a transwoman, all the women on our floor received a memo (paper, it was 30 years ago!) saying that a member of staff would be transitioning to be a woman and asking for our agreement for them to use the women's toilets. It was a large floor with several different departments, but in a male dominated sector, but new staff came and went fairly regularly across the floor. There was no drama, no "look at me" from the person. And in fact, it was 6 months before I even knew she was a transwoman! (It was a new member of staff, not a current member of staff transitioning). This was because she didn't wat drama, she didn't want attention. She just wanted to live her life. Sadly, every work place has that person who thrives on attention and drama, and it sounds like your drama llama is also trans which has terrified the boss of the legalities - I expect they bring it up every time they are questioned or anything 'goes wrong'.

I would hope - the nice side of me - that management actually know this and are keeping a close eye hoping for a major screw up, but in the mean time are too shit scared to actually do anything in case discrimination is thrown at them.

You never know what you’re allowed or not allowed to say anymore but I was thinking re the wanting to obliterate women altogether. Surely straight men don’t want this so is it a conspiracy (for want of a better word) by non straight men. For all the talk of trans phobia it seems like there is a massive (real) woman phobia going on and that is not only allowed but encouraged and rewarded. Transphobic - you’re fired, womanphobic - have a promotion. Honestly, if I had known this is what the world is now I don’t think I would ever have had children, I feel bad for bringing them in to this shite.

I came on here to express my sincere sympathy with the OP for the situation she and her colleagues are having to endure. And also to say that, left alone, it is highly likely that Ginny will royally f*-up at work for reasons entirely unrelated to gender/trans issues.

But it sounds like that process has begun.

I work in a very large organisation where we have a number of trans colleagues. None of them behave in this manner.

Ginny is doing a massive disservice to women in the workplace, trans or otherwise. But I hope they can get help for themselves, because they don't sound happy or secure in life. Though none of that should be visited on colleagues, of course.

Best wishes to you OP. x

What would have happened if any woman had said 'no' to a male in their toilet? Was there a way to raise objections discreetly?

Sorry, yes, there a form and labelled enveloped included to be able to anonymously object.

We had someone at my workplace who was trans for a couple of years before changing his mind (which is why I'm using male pronouns). At the time women had been in the minority, because this was a tech firm. We were getting more female recruits, but all of us had to share one small toilet (basically a single cubicle). Anyway, this individual had a habit of taking over the women's one toilet for 40-60 minutes at a time, often over lunch break. There were a couple of episodes with unhappy women storming around the building desperate to go to the loo, trying to find out who'd barricaded themselves in there! Management had a meeting about it. The individual denied spending that long in the toilet, but admitted it took a while to get in and out of the body suit, which included hips and a massive chest.

What was the outcome? Did they use the female toilet, were there any 'no's?

yep this is 100% what will happen. there will be no issue. nothing happened. everyones just slacking as usual and left Ginny out when you all went for a coffee. excluding the as always.

Anyone else wondering if the op is still in the coffee shop on her 10th cup of coffee?

I do love a workplace soap opera. One of my friends once worked in an office where the boss (middle aged, married, kids) was having an affair with one of the new young female graduates (he only recruited women...). They thought they were being clever with their secrecy, but it just made it all the more obvious to everyone else.

I suppose there are those who are genuinely unaware of how their behaviour is viewed by colleagues, and those who are aware and enjoy it.