Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Lol, yes, that could well be true. Even as a de facto woman I watch those ladies loos scenes on telly and imagine that they really do happen - just not to someone with my kind of dull social life. But come to think of it they are probably just a handy dramatic device, for the most part.

I've had drunk chats with random women in pub toilets. I've had work.chats with colleagues in work toilets. I've had drunk work chats with drunk colleagues in pub toilets 😁I've carried on conversations while peeing. But all these things have happened organically, not one person inserting themselves into another's business.

I do recall one, very short, conversation between women in separate cubicles. It was in Wolverhampton about 35 years ago, after the pub had done up the women's loos. It went like this:

Woman 1: 'Posh in 'ere, aye it!'
Woman 2: 'Arr'

Oh yes, occasionally I’ve had to speak to say “yeah, don’t use that one, there’s no loo roll/ the flush is broken”. And if I go into a toilet where someone has recently opened their bowels, I have often fought the compulsion to blurt “It wasn’t me!” if I come out and someone’s waiting to go into the still-smelly loo.

Most interaction in public toilets was (probably) saving someone’s life. I saw a bluish coloured hand sticking out of the toilet door gap once in the ladies of a nightclub. We shimmied over and pulled the young woman away from the inwards opening door to get her out. She had vomited all over herself and was unconscious. We cleared the vomit out of her mouth, put her on her side and asked staff to call an ambulance. She was groaning by the time the paramedics took her away. We carried on dancing and I never thought too much about it until recent years until my child had an injury.

I hate the fashion for full height doored gender-neutral toilets.

It's interesting in terms of bullying. Ginny's behaviour in interrupting a woman on the loo to discuss Ginny's fantasy use of a tampon with the women being asked to apologise for her response IN PUBLIC.

It's worse than that - on top of OP being forced to endure the public humiliation of having to apologise in front of the whole staff, the boss also mandated that no-one was allowed to speak of the incident that purportedly warranted an apology from OP.

So there is no way for anyone else to learn from the situation as they didn't know what had happened, and therefore there was no reason for it to be a public apology as the only reason to make it public was to further humiliate OP as a punishment and to make an example of her, as evidenced from the fact colleagues weren't allowed to know what OP was actually apologising for.

Furthermore, the fact that the public apology went hand-in-hand with the forbidding of discussing the incident meant that many colleagues may have had no idea what OP did, and would naturally assume that OP must have done something absolutely terrible for it to warrant such a public and humiliating apology, as that's not a normal way for workplace disputes to be resolved, and would obviously be an entirely inappropriate way to handle most incidents. So it damages OP's reputation among her colleagues too, with no way for her to clear her name as the boss has forbidden her from doing so.

The structure of 'public apology but no-one's allowed to discuss the reason for it' is so incredibly manipulative - either do it in private so it can actually be discussed or lay the whole situation out in public so that everyone understands what OP has apparently done. To demand silence expect for capitulation is such a controlling and unreasonable way to handle it.

I also resent the boss's implication that Ginny's bizarre behaviour was such that no-one without gender dysphoria could ever possibly understand, yet OP was still forced to apologise.

Logically, it cannot be the case that Ginny's psychological state is so unusual and unfathomable that none of us mere mortals could possibly understand it, while also being something that OP was supposed to reasonably foresee in handling the situation. It would only be the latter situation whereby OP could potentially be at fault and should be expected to apologise. Either the dysphoria is impossible to understand and it was just an unfortunate misunderstanding where no-one is at fault, or Ginny's bizarre behaviour is something a reasonable person would be able to predict, in which case OP might have reason to apologise.

Re the new toilet restriction, the other issue with blocking women's ability to go to the toilet together is that it prevents women (who are the group most significantly affected by Ginny's behaviour) from discussing their issues together privately, and it means that they have to discuss it in public under the watchful eyes of the boss and/or Ginny or meet up outside of work to discuss it. I know that it wasn't a single-sex space before the sign, but at least it was a place where women could expect to have a bit of privacy from their terrible manipulative boss.

It's obviously helpful that the boss has acknowledged an issue and has blocked Ginny from harassing women in there, but he's also preventing you from discussing your concerns without his supervision, which goes back to his order that Ginny's behaviour must never be discussed between colleagues.

I’d be taking my phone to the loo ready to press ‘record’ if I worked with Ginny.

Is the boss always there? It’d be interesting to know how Ginny would behave in a bossless office for the day. I’d definitely have my phone ready.

It's be investing in small recording devices that double up as a button and switching them on as i arrived at work to be perfectly honest.

I would put money on their being someone in the OP's boss's family or social circle who identifies as trans. It seems personal to him, hence the lengths he is going to protect Ginny.

Or it may simply be that Ginny has the boss's ear, because men prefer to listen to other men.

Funking ridiculous. Op. I hope you get the job on Friday.
Then get help to claim constructive dismissal x

I never typed funking

Mine assumes I'm always really angry when i type it look... Fucking

Haha. Your phone knows you better than mine

LonginesPrime those are really really good points.

I never get autocorrected to funking, my phone opts for ducking.

To the extent I can no longer see the word duck in a message without assuming the sender meant to swear.

LonginesPrime has just made your case for you there, op. There are some excellent points on this thread. Show the ducking funking idiots how wrong they are! 😀

This whole thread (plus the previous one) has made my jaw drop multiple times (poor OP), but "gone full tonto" made me laugh out loud. Brilliant.

And trans people complain about their high levels of unemployment. Having read both threads, I'm not at all surprised, I wouldn't give one a job either if they create all this shit.

I have a nasty feeling that the “one at a time” sign is intended to protect G, in that it prevents someone recording her again or “bullying” her. Or witnessing her rifling through the box of sanpro.

It isn’t enforceable anyway. Nobody will police it (bar one person). I assume from the other thread that it’s the common setup of an outer door with several cubicles inside. Nobody would know if there’s someone already in there. Perhaps the company could provide a stethoscope for listening through the outer door, or maybe Mr Brent could consider a booking system 🙃

Unless it’s for operational reasons e.g. two people are needed at a service desk so both personnel can’t go to the loo at the same time, this instruction can’t be justified and ignoring it isn’t misconduct.

And Mr Brent is on a sticky employment law wicket if he’s telling women to go the toilet one at at time, but not men.

It's like school and being told only one of you can go to the loo during class. In case you get up to no good.

Who'd be getting up to no good here? Hmm.🤔

When you see it laid out like this, my flabber is even more gasted.

I reckon Mr Brent is rapidly getting out of his depth. He's done all his "be kind" stuff, bent over backwards with a triple twist in order to accommodate Ginny and now suddenly the realisation may be starting to dawn that this is not all a one way street.
Alternatively he is going even further down the rabbit hole and thinking everyone is a transphobic bully and that Ginny can do no wrong.
Rather too many metaphors here, but hopefully you get the drift.

Another possibility...

I know a bloke who runs what sounds like a very similar set-up. He has an outside interest about which he is passionate - nothing wrong with that, except that the interest group he's involved with has been infiltrated and pretty much taken over by proponents of "inclusion and diversity", though as usual this only applies to every letter after LGB.

I wonder whether the boss in this case has been influenced through another part of his life and thought hiring "Ginny" was a way of gaining kudos with a similar interest group.

I’d be assuming the toilet already has a small sound or video recording device. Urine fetish conviction