Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Missed This i was tunnocking.

If they weren't trans you'd think they were almost making fun of us

Ginny is doing worse than making fun of you. As ginny doesnt do it with the men ginny is using the women in the office as unconsenting props in his fantasy of 'girlhood'. I know you don't want to, but you need to pull him up on it, or at least talk to your boss about Ginnys behaviours. Given there's already been a complaint from another female today i don't think your boss will be to surprised.

"the boss has taken over and put the worlds cheapest sanpro in it and nothing else. Don't tell him but we moved the original basket stash to the back office 😉"

😀at the thought of Ginny pushing cheap and nasty tampons up Ginny's arse while the rest of you use the nice sisterhood basket ones. Yeah gross as it is, you're probably better off double bagging your used ones in dog poo bags and taking them home for disposal, lest the resident fetishist get bored of using the fresh ones and goes bin hoking.

Assuming there are no transmen in your workplace, I wonder if the ones in the mens' loos will sit gathering dust, or if your boss has discovered a fun new hobby.

Or every time Ginny pulls the ditzy girl thing just say ' I don't know go ask Dave'.

"Ginny is doing worse than making fun of you. As ginny doesnt do it with the men ginny is using the women in the office as unconsenting props in his fantasy of 'girlhood'. "

Well that..plus maybe thoroughly enjoying any signs of your discomfiture, in exactly the same way that men leaning out of vans beeping and doing the hand and tongue blowjob gesture at women walking past minding their own business enjoy it. All the better if the women have to suck it up and smile, like Savile groping girls on TOTP who knew they were on camera, in a crowd, and couldn't make a scene.

Sorry, this is batshit. I don't know if I missed anything, but basically "Ginny" is a transwoman, who pretended to menstruate and therefore asked for one of your tampons?

And management supported this?

If this is true, the world has gone mad.

Our local farm shop (of all places) sells the dark chocolate Tunnocks! DP has banned me from buying any more of them.

Stick to the truth.

You were anxious and upset at the meeting because you were going to apologise.

You couldn't take it all in because of that anxiety.

Can you see it again?

It's was an information session so people would like to make sure they got it all.

That's all true.

hi there,
I have been reading this thread with amazement and just wanted to say I'm very grateful to you for sharing your story. You have been through so much, I am very sorry. I'm so glad you have support here and in your 'real life'.

I really urge you not to rush into leaving your job as it seems quite possible that Ginny will leave soon.

Hang in there if you can, even if you give yourself a timeline, like staying until the end of the year and then making a decision.

I've had recent experience of a good colleague leaving a job they loved because of difficulties with a manager. If only they had stayed as the manager left herself a few months later.... I know that might be wishful thinking but maybe its worth giving it a bit more time
apologies if I am not up to date - perhaps you've already made this decision....
Sending you my best wishes in your battle of wits,
L x

Thank you, I’m on it now

I'm so glad your boss is finally taking action, OP, and while it's obviously horrible that your colleague had to endure the creepy stalking, I'm so glad for both of you that she didn't let it go and held your boss to account for his part in enabling Ginny's behaviour.

Ginny is very overly feminine and giggly, almost patronisingly so. If they weren't trans you'd think they were almost making fun of us.

It's horrible, isn't it?

I still remember how betrayed I felt after, having spent months pushing for trans rights throughout my organisation a la our directive from Stonewall, I encountered this behaviour and realised what men really thought women were when they said they "felt like they were really women".

I felt so incredibly angry and insulted that this was what they felt like and that feeling like this (ditsy, incompetent, frivolous) was what men meant when they said they felt like they were women and that it was a relief to be their true selves.

What I saw was them being relieved of the pressure to be competent and composed and to have high expectations placed on them at all times throughout their careers, since their own expectations of women's professional performance was so low.

For many professionally established men, it almost seems like transitioning is a way to take their foot off the gas and have a little breather from all the pressure of being a high performer - many seem to treat it as a way to take a sabbatical while still being able to draw a full salary.

So insulting.

What's really weird (and kind of funny) about it is that they have such an incredible lack of awareness of their own misogynistic ideas that they don't even realise that their behaviour speaks volumes about what they really think about women.

Thanks for the update op! If I were in your shoes, I would from now on, go to the toilet in pairs, just to avoid any more indulgences of a certain fetish when you are vulnerable.
Yes, look for another job...do you need the reference from this one? Or, upon leaving, could you leave the boss a letter setting out a) what is legally required for an equal op employer regarding provision for trans employees and b) how much he has discriminated against the rest of you?

Also - i know it might seem pointless to document each incident where Ginny's being patronising and in any other scenario would feel like she was mocking women, but I think it's worth noting these down too (times, dates, witnesses, what was said, how it made you feel, etc).

As with the more overt and clearer acts of discrimination/harassment etc you're all experiencing, these little comments could be useful in the future if you need to evidence a pattern of behaviour and/or to illustrate that the volume of these tiny little insults is part of the problem.

I know it's a lot to be noting down when it's happening regularly, but you might regret not doing it later if things end up taking a turn in a different direction, not least as you don't know how Ginny will decide to react to losing control of the manipulative situation she worked so hard to create in the first place.

It's a bit girl mode / boy mode

What a perfect illustration of male patronising and sexist stereotyping by trans ideology.

I would be tempted to say something that would put me on the naughtly step.

But maybe just simper back and giggle and simper they should go and ask one of the men as after all you are just a silly female!!

Yuk.

Oh wow what an update! I agree it is rubbish that you all have a new rule (although personally I would welcome it as I don’t like going to the bathroom with others 🤣) but the fact he’s recognised Ginny needs stopping is a positive.

It sounds like Ginny may indeed be toppling, so while I’d still do the interview, it may be worth sticking around a bit. Could even show the boss you’re sick of Ginny to the point of getting another job offer…

Similar to lily above we had a situation at work recently with an awful manager, someone felt targeted (justifiably, it was awful and TBH in a bigger company with an HR dept it wouldn’t have been allowed to escalate) and understandably jumped ship… manager suddenly quit just a few months later, we are all relieved but really feel the loss of our colleague still and it’s left her feeling unsupported.

Don’t blame you in the slightest for wanting out ASAP but maybe, just maybe there’s hope!

Dying to know about the newbies 😁

Also thanks for the explanation of WORIAD. I’ve promised to bracelets with my DCs soon and I will definitely nab the right letter beads for that 😁

Also, I've checked my emails this evening and I have a telephone interview with a potential new employer on Friday which is great news. It's technically something a bit above my grade so I'm not entirely confident it will go anywhere but I'm happy to at least be interviewing and getting a bit of practice in if nothing else
Men overestimate their abilities, women underestimate theirs. Go for it @idontknowwhattosay23 , if it is above your grade you can ask for support to learn the bits you don't know, bet it takes you no time at all to pick it up and you may also find you already know the role!

Have caught up with all your posts op. Ha about the sign on the bathroom door! Very interesting that boss had to have phone evidence of it happening to do anything! I wonder, did Ginny wait until they were actually on the loo to start the chat as with you?
Good luck at your interview! And please do tell the boss exactly what's what when you leave!

I think your own notes of what had happened is enough. I might be tempted to incite others, preferably male, to encourage Ginny to post on YouTube.

If you do get a better job, take it. Your boss does not deserve your loyalty.

You might want to consider a constructive dismissal case or at least, finding a firm of solicitors that would prepare a case for you to really show your boss how he has failed every woman in his company and what he has put them through. Prepare the bundle and let him read through every witness statement. And maybe then drop the case on the proviso that your boss apologise to everyone. I for one would help fund raise for this.

I'm trying to think how to word it without being labelled transphobic, or nasty. It's almost like they can turn it on and off? Around us, Ginny is very overly feminine and giggly, almost patronisingly so. If they weren't trans you'd think they were almost making fun of us. Even the simplest of work related matters can't be discussed professionally, it's all "heyyyyy girls! Oh my god so I have this problem with with this data and I just know you girls will help meeeeee! I feel like such a klutz I should so know how to do this insert stomach churning giggles scooch over let me sit with you so I can show you" blah blah all very OTT nonsense. Almost like a bad parody of every 90s chick flick.

HOWEVER, I have seen them speaking with male colleagues about quite serious matters and they are the opposite. Very clear, concise, make pertinent and relevant points.

You're not transphobic; he is sexist, through and through. Women giggle, because they'e not important & they don't know much.

But MEN. Men are important. Men know things, they are serious. So he goes back to being a man with them.

I'm beginning to go right off Ginny for some reason.

The sign on the loo door is funny in a way, but a clear sign that your boss has noticed there is predatory behavior but is too gutless to confront it - Ginny should be on warning to treat their colleagues with more respect, and to be aware that sexual harassment is a serious disciplinary matter.

Unfortunately for the OP and the other women at her job, it also suggests that Ginny is capable of doing the job and therefore may survive this mess. After all, holding sexist ideas about women has never been a blocker to a man's career as long as the other men rate him.

Yes, nothing weaker in management than posting a passive aggressive note to all rather than addressing bad behavior directly with the one exhibiting it.

The newcomers should be encouraged to ask for Ginnys video.

I've never seen it expressed as well as this. Really incisive analysis.

Why can't the bloody media be half as good as FWR?

This is seriously bonkers, your boss is a coward.