Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

OTBT
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I think it would be a shame for this thread to be removed.

I understand why the first thread was deleted at OP's request when it was leading up to what was meant to be a crucial private meeting (not the one to publicly humiliate OP and give Ginny material for a video FFS!)

There is a lot of useful information here for others who find themselves in the same situation.

And as long as an issue like this is always behind a closed door more chances of it being exposed to the light and called out.

But ...

If in anyway OP feels this will make her remaining time at the workplace worse of course it would go.

And (sorry I am repeating myself here) at some future date when OP is hopefully settled in a new job with a sane boss and supportive colleagues and an appropriate pay packet, I think what would be useful is to send an outline of the events to something like Sex Matters and ask them to publish the basis on which anyone else similarly stabbed in the back by their boss can protect their rights (and sanity).

Here's hoping that today was a good day at work for OP!

I think one reason why the boss might be behaving in this dreadful way is that he's had zero experience of manipulative abusers in the past. This is true of many men, therefore they can't identify coercive controlling tactics when they encounter them. I bet deep down he's feeling uncomfortable if he's a generally decent bloke but can't perhaps put his finger on why Ginny's demands are not quite right and so is going along with them (because 'most vulnerable' etc).

Hope you've had a good day today OP.

Added to that, this is in no way an isolated incident.

I know of several such in my sector, and it's happened to someone close to me. We might be reading this aghast, thinking it so egregious it surely must be an outlier.

Unfortunately, it isn't.

I've now caught up on this thread (as has missed the original).

I'm absolutely furious for you @idontknowwhattosay23 - have DM'd you.

So glad you feel supported by everyone here!

I agree with this. A lot of people have been sucked in, and for many men there's a massive hurdle of imagination to get over when understanding why women do not accept TW with open arms.

They assume, partly because of the 'vulnerable' messaging, partly because of the T teaming with LGB, but mainly because they just can't get their heads around what else could possibly motivate Ginny et al to trans themselves, that they are poor gentle souls who were born in the wrong body. Ladies living every day with the cruel misfortune to be wrapped in a man-like outer.

As such they are to be pitied, especially by the lucky 'real' women. Because WHY would any man do this to himself - humiliate himself in this way - unless he had no choice?

Ginny longs to be one of the girls. So why are the women being mean to them?! How could the women do this?! Women are supposed to be kind and supportive. And here they are looking at this person who would give anything to be them, like Pinocchio wishing to be a real boy, and they're refusing to share the trappings of womanhood they are lucky enough to enjoy.

Most men (most people!) have never been on FWR, or dug into the issue. Like the rest of the population they've been taught to think this is the new gay rights. And even though they may hear of the odd predator in the papers, these are easily dismissed as different: they are not the head-tilted, nail-polished, flicky-haired 'true trans' like Ginny. As for Ginny's weird commentary on sexual harassment or the tampon incident, these will probably be put down to harmless symptoms of dysphoria. Poor Ginny! It's tragic.

It's this natural tendency of men to pity TW that leads to them feeling they can instruct us to allow them into our loos and changing rooms. They just can't see why we don't let the poor things in.

Gosh just remembering now actually, they said something like "I have had male privilege in the work place for 25 years, Cis women have never known the privilege so can't miss it like I do"

😳😳😳😳😳

I have no words

"You cannot possibly understand the pressure from cis women to repress my femininity because they find it intimidating" talking then about how they take hours in a morning to respectfully choose their clothes and make up as to not make any other women feel inferior or less attractive, like they're doing us a favour

Holy fucking shit. I'd have sprained my eyeballs.

Thanks to those saying they have sent DMs, really appreciate the support! I can't see them on the app but will have a look on the website tonight to see if I can find them x

Today was quiet and overall uneventful, which is a small mercy at the moment but I'll take it. The new starts are actually starting tomorrow not today like I thought so I'm slightly apprehensive about that but we will see what happens. I was asked before all of this happened if I would do some orientation / basic training with them but I was cheerfully told that's not happening now so not to worry about getting anything ready for them arriving tomorrow. I'm not even going to hazard a guess who will now be doing it instead of me and I don't want to know 🙃😂 but it means I'll get an extended lunch with the other women in the back office as they want that space for training tomorrow, I'm happy with that!

Also, I've checked my emails this evening and I have a telephone interview with a potential new employer on Friday which is great news. It's technically something a bit above my grade so I'm not entirely confident it will go anywhere but I'm happy to at least be interviewing and getting a bit of practice in if nothing else.

I'll hold my hands up and say I was ruminating a bit today, sort of angrily day dreaming about the fact this isn't an isolated incident. When I first posted I felt ridiculous because of how ludicrous it all is but reading others posts about people that know I'm similar situations is both a comfort and infuriating. It's hard to believe this happening far more than we realise and it's really weighed on me today.

Ginny doesn't doubt that they can do a job above their ability, OP, so why would you?

Do the interview. Keep applying for jobs. You will gat one and can put all this behind you.

I have a telephone interview with a potential new employer on Friday which is great news. It's technically something a bit above my grade

Given what you've survived AND kept on working, I cant imagine it will be above your grade!

But even if it is a tiny bit, it is such a valid reason for applying. This is you advancing yourself.

I'm sure you'll be great.

Hope you and the others have a good day tomorrow when whoever it might be (!) is doing the newbie inductions.

Good luck with the interview!! Sell your heart out, say to yourself you're the best person for this job!! Don't worry if it's a bit above what you know, everyone learns on the job. No one goes into a job knowing everything or you wouldn't change jobs. Think positively 😀😀😀

Stay strong Op & good luck for Friday!

Righthandcider
They just can't see why we don't let the poor things in.

and they really resent us when the answer reminds them that some men are predators and we need to keep them out. Why do they not get indignant when TW say they aren’t safe in the mens though?

This is one of the ways men get ahead.

Wanted: UK Space station lead scientist.
Man: I watched Star wars that one time, let me apply.

Wanted:UK Space station lead scientist
Women: I've only been on the international space station once, and my research was focused on nebulae and I know they want to focus on black holes. The last time I looked at the data regarding black holes was during my PhD 5 years ago. I'll wait for an 'assistant Nebula research administrator' job.

idontknowwhattosay23

Good luck for the interview. Just from the two threads it’s clear you are principled, good under pressure and able to think logically. I’m sure you have many more great qualities for any employer.

Wtf, why did he need a tampon? What did he do with it?!

You lot are just the most intellectual, emotionally intelligent and supportive bunch I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I really don't have the words to express how your kindness and encouragement has helped me the past few weeks, it's totally floored me. If this thread isn't proof of how women support women and why it's important for women to stand together than I don't know what is ❤️❤️

Well that's the big question. I absolutely did not have the balls (ha) to ask that during the meeting and as my employment is vital in providing for my two very small children I just bit my tongue.

Based on how the issue was skirted around and the language used, it was hinted that it's a point of embarrassment for them. Not because they are ashamed of what they did but because they seemingly have overwhelming urges to reaffirm their sex, and not doing so can result in mental and physical distress. It seemed more so to be the need to "reaffirm" that caused embarrassment. It's difficult to explain but when I can share the audio you'll be able to hear for yourselves what I mean. Very strange choices of words and phrasing.

💐💐💐

Good luck for your interview x

This is so utterly grim.

If this man is getting off on public sexual behaviour, which seems to be the case, there's a likelihood he'll keep escalating it.

good lord. i am not sure i want to even begin to imagine. i didn't see your first thread but i'm so sorry you're having to go through this and pander to these blatant lies. truly hope you get the potential job!!!!

Why on earth would someone just throw away a brilliant company and team over this? He's far from stupid, he must know why the two guys are leaving, and he's staunchly not at all bothered by it.

If it was an actual woman he had elevated in this way I know what the talk would be.

Well that's the big question

Am I right in thinking that the tampons weren't even provided by your employer and were actually supplies that you and a colleague had clubbed together to buy out of your own money?

And then Ginny is trying to waste them for god knows what?

That is spot on accurate!