Ginny - an update

[idontknowwhattosay23]

Massive apologies for the delay in an update. It's been tricky to know how to word it so that I don't get into trouble or have to ask for it to be taken down again. Plus I've been so depressed with the situation I haven't really known what to say.

I won't be able to post the full story as before so really this is only for the benefit of those that read the last (now deleted) thread and wondered what happened / can remember the details.

The meeting went ahead as planned, although with the massive twist that it wasn't actually just myself and "Ginny" but was turned into a whole office meeting, which turned into just giving Ginny a platform to talk about her life as a trans woman (all 6 months of it) and how she is constantly objectified by men, sexually harassed and cat called and suffers far more than any cis woman and as such, deserves (and needs so she doesn't harm herself) the support and cooperation of everyone in the office, especially other women. No, I'm not joking.

The tampon / being in the women's toilet issue was brushed under the carpet as quickly as possible and explained to us as a complex matter of dysphoria that we couldn't possibly grasp and was not to be spoken about again. We were then informed that female sanitary products would be provided by management in ALL toilets, men's women's and the disabled toilets to avoid any future "misunderstanding". I was asked if I wanted to apologise for my outburst and make a fresh start with Ginny, I did so because as I said in the last thread, I really need this job at the moment. I'm so disappointed in myself for doing so and feel gross. But I couldn't do anything else. I want to thank all those that said to just suck it up and apologise, it saved me my job 100% no question about it.

Overall it was bordering humiliating for all involved, we were spoken to like children and patronised beyond belief. Ginny has been given a new desk set up right by the bosses office, best view, newest computer and a client list that even people who have been there 10+ years wouldn't usually get a look in on and have been working hard to secure for a long time... myself and two other women have been relocated to the back office. Apparently absolutely unrelated incidents, based on "the continuing restructure of company operations to maximise productivity and output". Two men have handed in their notice, again entirely unrelated.... (I can't say much, please put the pieces together yourselves ❤️)

I'm speaking now because frankly I'm dreading Monday, as in physically feel crap and absolutely can't face going in, but for now I have to. I'm actively looking for another job and have had my 3 weeks holiday approved from mid-July so I just need to get through a week and a half and I'm free of the nonsense for a bit to regroup and figure out what I do next.

It's no understatement to say I am utterly baffled as to why there is such massive special treatment for Ginny, considering the huge mistakes they have made since starting and the constant drama. Current theories floated by colleagues suggest either the boss believes that this is legally how trans people need to be treated in the workplace and is entirely uneducated in it, thus airing massively on the side of caution and has pushed inclusivity so far he's excluded everyone else. And another theory to do with crushes that I couldn't possibly repeat.

So there we have it. I'm sorry it took a while to update, there is plenty more happening that I just can't really share at the moment. But when I can I will.

Given the number of "Ginnies" there are in the wild, it would be difficult to prove which Ginny was being talked about I imagine.

The boss will likely learn the hard way that nothing will ever be enough for 'Ginny' but you would be amazed how many 50+ men are bisexual and won't admit it even to themselves. Transwomen make them feel like they can continue to self-delude.

Characters like Ginny are ten a penny nowadays, but the specific situations and timing, etc will obviously be recognisable to the people at that workplace (and their families and friends who have no doubt heard all about this madness).

In one way, I think it would be good for the boss to know how his decisions and bullying (forcing OP to apologise and insinuating she did something wrong to the rest of the office, giving a warning to employees because he's a terrible manager of people, etc) are really affecting his employees.

But obviously I would rather him find that out because OP brings a case for constructive dismissal than because the Daily Mail gets hold of the story, as a terrible manager like that would likely only see the breach of social media policy as the issue rather than his terrible behaviour.

As much as it would be helpful to other women to keep this thread up, OP, my advice would be save the posts and have the thread deleted, in order that you can maintain control of the situation as best you can.

Perhaps make a more general thread for advice without the specifics and we can still all contribute and brainstorm.

I really feel that the main problem here is your terrible boss and not the fact there's a transwoman there - it's the boss that gave Ginny a platform and sat there too blinded by Ginny's transness to see how sexist and offensive to women they were being. It's the boss that allowed a trans employee to walk all over you, It's the boss who is controlling the workplace environment and the people in it, not the transwoman. Ginny is insufferable, but most managers wouldn't have let them wield this much control over the situation, and a decent manager would have contained the situation.

What's driving me cuckoo now is why on earth my lovely, helpful, kind boss has done a 180 and gone full activist.

I would hazard a guess that maybe there is a family member who has/is going down this route & maybe trying to come to terms with it. Or what started out as well meaning decision has turned on him & he is trying to protect it.

either well it is a lost cause now & you are better off moving on if you can. You will never win with a Ginny- they are on a massive power trip which is been fed. Smile, wave & ignore.

I agree - I’d be inclined to tell the boss that I don’t accept the warning, since I didn’t break any rules, and please can he ensure that no warning is on my records. Unless he’s spectacularly thick, he must realise that people aren’t happy and it follows that some of them might want to leave. He’d be a very spiteful person to allow a warning to remain on someone’s employment record, impacting their future employment prospects, when it shouldn’t be there.

This is the problem with small companies that don’t have HR and GDPR people who know the law. They break employment law all the time and the employees can’t do anything about it without launching expensive and risky legal action, so they just leave and the whole mess starts again with new employees.

But surely this boss, after running a company for years, isn’t uninformed enough to be unaware that you can’t legitimately give everyone a warning for something they didn’t do, and that he has no evidence for.

I agree with PPs that this thread should be pulled. There must be quite a few people who would recognise this situation and someone could make a lot of trouble.

any telling the boss on the legal issue should be in writing and datestamped (email is fine) to prevent denial in future.

I agree, and if ACAS have been supportive I'd get them involved with that.

Thank you for the thread, OP. What you are going through sounds close to unbearable. I’m glad others in your office can see through it, but the frustration you are feeling must be off the scale.

As for your boss, I would add a personal experience. My father worked as a manager in the public sector.

He is a thoroughly decent man, but has an absolute blind spot for anyone he sees as an underdog. Unfortunately this leads to major problems when an apparent underdog actually has deeply narcissistic tendencies. He has, on occasion, thrown even family under the bus to protect those he sees as weaker.

I think he has autistic tendencies (not diagnosed but runs in the family). So thoroughly decent, approachable and mostly very fair, with a horrendous capacity to cause pain when he misses the nuance of what other people are experiencing at the hands of the narc.

There used to be a "secret place" that MN HQ could move a thread to to avoid outing. Is it still there? @MNHQ

Good luck OP! I hope you have a fabulous holiday and that all goes smoothly beforehand.

OTBT

What does OTBT mean, please?

Off the beaten track.

Iirc threads in there are not Googleable and don't show up in Active Conversations

It might be the compromise between it being so accessible and deletion?

It's the name of the thread. I was replying to the poster I quoted. Think it stands for Off The Beaten Track.
Thinking of you, op. Hope you get sorted x

Every time they go for an evening out with friends, without fail, they are sexually harassed and approached by "very wealthy and handsome married men" but they are "not homewreckers and won't be made to feel like a cheap whore"

Sorry but this is hilarious.

This person is totally acting out a fantasy.

Thanks. It would make sense for the thread to be moved there.

I’m sure that is quite common now. We are constantly bombarded with messages telling us that the Gs of this world are the underdog of all underdogs.

I really feel that the main problem here is your terrible boss and not the fact there's a transwoman there

This with knobs on
Also agree that having the thread deleted and (namechanged) later asking for more general ideas/advice would be better

Almost like being locked in a room with a very poorly written erotic novel being read aloud through speakers you can't shut off.

50 Shades of Ginny?

Humour aside, I'm really sorry this is happening to you OP. I didn't see your original thread but this all sounds utterly horrendous. I would be careful to keep the new 'back room club' on the down-low in case Ginny sees a group that they're excluded from - presumably they won't want to give up their prime place next to the bosses office, but they won't want you congregating elsewhere in case you're organising yourselves or supporting each other. Or even just being women together because, as we all know, the biggest form of validation for these people is being in women's spaces. So be aware that Ginny may well seek to have your group broken up.

Very best of luck on the job front - is temping an option? It can be much easier to find a job quickly that way. A very long time ago I had a terrible job where I was bullied by my boss and gaslit to high heaven, including lies being told to HR which resulted in me receiving disciplinary actions for things that had never happened at all. I eventually left but I wish to hell I'd gone sooner.

Although even if the boss had boundaries and was managing this awful behaviour effectively, the issue would still be that there is a male member of staff behaving very badly and that active sexual harassment of the female staff is a part of this behaviour

AND

that this behaviour must be indulged without those affected pointing out the reality of it, why it is being done, how the person doing is benefitting from it, how they feel about it, or that this employee is making use of others as non consenting props in their experience. Because 'hate speech' and 'misgendering' and other things that were intended to be kind AND can work as weapons in the hands of the less well intentioned.

And that unfortunately IS an aspect of behaviour and indulgence to affect women colleagues that is only available to a male employee claiming a TQ+ status.

If you happen to have a male TQ+ employee/colleague NOT making use of this behaviour and special licence that exempts them from the boundaries preventing other male people from behaving like this in the work place, then that is great, but the fact of the matter is that the door is open to any male in that group without respect for others. And managing it is very difficult to do. The wider context makes it so. Case by case does not work for women, ever.

I agree with the PPs who are more concerned with the boss, than with Ginny, as the problem for OP to have to deal with.
I’m not sure that the boss in this company could have been that perfect under the surface.

I had experience at work with a Ginny which was handled very poorly because the boss was extremely sexist towards women and mothers. Not tackling or even encouraging the problems caused by that Ginny was just one symptom of a much bigger leadership problem that would have made it impossible to stay long in the job anyhow.

I have lost out financially by moving to less well paid work but had to do it for the sake of my mental health. I know that I was lucky to have that option. I would say OP needs to remove herself as soon as possible from this boss if she can.

Having worked in a workplace with ‘Ginnys’ both Ginnys behaviour and the way the crap boss is handling it are the problems

Yes, but Ginny's behaviour towards OP is the boss's responsibility.

There are always going to be bad employees, and the employer has a duty of care to his employees to protect them from harassment and discrimination, through workplace policies, training, disciplinary and grievance procedures, and so on.

He has a duty of care to both Ginny and to the OP, but, perhaps predictably, hasn't noticed how misogynistic he's being so OP's legal rights here have been completely overlooked. Plus in this latest meeting, the boss has contributed his own public humiliation and bullying around the coerced public apology, among other appalling acts, to the mix.

There will always be abusive arseholes in the world, but at work, it's for OP's boss to protect OP from being on the receiving end of them in the course of her employment.

I do have sympathy for any boss or HR department wanting to do the common sense thing. The law is not on their side. Politicians are not on their side. Institutions are not on their side. The media is not on their side.

It feels like all employees can do is to retreat. Passively resist.

I get what you're saying but it's not true. Sex is a protected characteristic. The problem is 'Stonewall law' which is the self identification into a law that doesn't actually exist, but which many groups (including Stonewall) have pushed onto employers and convinced them that it's true when it's not.

The Forstarter, Fahmy and Bailey judgements show that women who believe in the reality of biology are protected under the law. What is happening here is against the law.

Someone needs to send the above judgements to the OP's boss.