Horrible news story

[MumblesParty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-66107716

And I can't help wondering if the "women" assailants are actually women.
Poor kid.

Or interpretive dance

Here you go. This is a reasonable ask? Why is Sarah having to go to court for this essential service?

sarah summers: press release 3 may 2022
Didlaw is a specialist discrimination law firm based in London. Didlaw is representing Sarah Summers, a rape survivor, in her case against Brighton’s Rape Crisis Centre Survivors’ Network. Proceedings have been issued in the Brighton County Court.

The case is against the Survivors’ Network, the only rape crisis centre in Sussex and its refusal to provide a women-only peer support group for victims of sexual abuse and violence.

On first using the service in 2021 Ms Summers felt relief at being able to share her story of sexual abuse and rape with women with similar experiences. She attended weekly sessions which were helpful and supportive.

From September 2021 things changed. A trans woman joined the group which made Ms Summers feel deeply uncomfortable. She raised the fact of her discomfort with the network but was told that despite there being another group available for trans, non-binary and intersex survivors, it was the policy of the network to allow anyone identifying as a woman to join the group.

The response of the network was that Ms Summers should find another service in Brighton (there is none) or one to one support. They ruled out a change of policy. Sarah Summers was effectively pushed out of the group. She was removed from the network’s mailing list and blocked on Twitter.

The legal case is that such a policy is indirectly discriminatory because it puts women with Sarah’s experience at a particular disadvantage which cannot be justified. Other claims include harassment, victimisation and personal injury. Some female survivors have a trauma response to men and it is not appropriate for biological males to share their survivor network. Victims of sexual abuse and violence need to be able to share feelings and experiences in a safe single sex environment.

The Equality Act 2010 prohibits discrimination based on sex or gender reassignment but there are exceptions for certain groups where access can be modified or limited if there is a legitimate aim to protect. Guidance from the Equality and Human Rights Commission says that services should be open to trans people wherever possible. This case is about protecting the right for some services to remain single sex spaces, by law, where this is the most appropriate manner of safeguarding the rights of women. The rights of women to these spaces is vitally important and must be protected.

The law is not clear. More guidance is needed. It is hoped that this case will assist in clarifying the law and provide service providers with a clear legal framework.

Don’t make me bring out the gifs, Beets!

I don’t know if my orgasms are any more splendid than other people’s, but having experienced it, I would never willingly, for non-medical reasons, do anything that stopped me ever having another one. But I didn’t have my first orgasm until I was 17, and before that might have believed “what I’ve never had I’ll never miss”. And maybe trans children won’t miss what they’ve never had, but I know they’ve missed out on the third-best physical sensation human beings are capable of.

Yes . We know what you mean. You mean that you dismissed child sex abuse. And you have been doubling down on it ever since it finally sunk in that we were calling you out on it.

WOMEN WE ARE JUST WOMEN WE ARE NOT BLOODY CIS WOMEN

That's erm... disturbing

When you are told by a survivor of CSA that you are completely wrong (and offensive) about their experience, the correct response is to apologise rather than calling them an idiot, @evieowlette. You can’t blame that on dyslexia.

Really? Did I miss that moment?

I really don’t believe that it has sunk in yet.

Heh, and here’s the note you were just passed with “SAY CISGENDER WOMEN!!! THEY HATE THAT!!!!!”

Are you going to admit you screwed up when you used the term child pornography?

Do you understand how deeply disgusting it is to use that description?

Do you accept yet that the ongoing effects to the children in the images is life long?

Do you accept yet that those images are produced for men to wank off to?

Do you accept yet that during the making of those images children will be sexually assaulted raped and sometimes even murdered? Forced to have sex with animals? I could go on?

And one more time do not CIS on this board

In some cases there are, in others there aren't. In women's shelters for example there should be a choice in whether Cisgender women are happy to be around those with different sex characteristics

This is already the law.
It's constantly challenged by activists who force providers to permit women that choice.

They would consider you to be deeply transphobic for suggesting that women should have a choice and they are attacking the EHRC commissioners for suggesting that this is possible in guidance.

Hence the need to add biological to the equality act definition of sex.

Even that has been followed by men claiming that if they scarf down enough estrogen they are biologically female.

Do you know any of this?

Blimey!

And completely ignored the child sex abuse again.

Do you realise that ignoring it is dismissing it? Just a different type of dismissal.

It's constantly challenged by activists who force providers to NOT permit women that choice.

The Equality Act 2010 prohibits discrimination based on sex or gender reassignment but there are exceptions for certain groups where access can be modified or limited if there is a legitimate aim to protect

So what is the issue exactly? A Trans Woman joined the group and a Cisgender Woman is uncomfortable with this. This can make a lot of sense but I guess it's whether you remain inclusive to all Women or just Cisgender women by default. I do think there is a very obvious cause for shelters for Cisgender women only though including myself and I think if I was assaulted by a Trans Woman I would want this desperately. I guess I understand the perspective here a bit better. It's something that can be controlled and is actually worth investing in. This is not the hill i'm dying on because I agree with you I think these should be available. I just think the debate around other areas of life that cannot really be controlled without staring at someones genitals like toilets and changing rooms wont work and the energy should be focused on GN spaces instead of ignoring the problem until everything turns to shit. Which it kind of already has.

The first being Tottenham Hotspur winning the Premiership, of course.

Well of course. 🙄each to their own and all that

I'm impressed with the selective blindness I must say.

The first being Tottenham Hotspur winning the Premiership, of course

I thought you were a reality fan!

Keep things the same as always

See this is the problem isn't it. When you are 20 or so things that happen currently because you have no memory of recent history are "the same as always".

There is no same as always about the current massive overreach.

That's why you sound like a men's rights activist, because you are promoting a change on the basis you believe what men have told you about this being " the same as always".

It's like feminism never happened with young women!

I just think the debate around other areas of life that cannot really be controlled without staring at someones genitals

Maybe stop saying trite and stupid things like this in the context of a serious problem.

I do find myself wondering why i went through all that shit for so many years to ensure that the next generation of women had it easier. I wasnt expecting them to rip up all those hard won rights in one generation before they even know what they are giving away.

@evieowlette - please don’t use the term cisgender. Only women with gender identities would use the phrase. The rest of us are not “cis”, we are not “non-men” and we are not “non-trans females”. We are women, and we make up 51% of the population. In Brexit referendum terms, we are the will of the people.

Did you understand the part hepwo pointed out?

That women’s shelters and groups are being forced by lobby groups and by stonewall champion local governments to force only ‘inclusive’ shelters and groups! The law is too loose because it allows outside organizations to force the providers through funding and other support to remove female only options.

Sarah Summer’s group had a men’s group, a LGBTQ group and a women’s group. The women’s group became mixed sex because a male came and made women uncomfortable. Sarah complained and asked for a female only group in addition. She was then removed from support altogether!

You seem to think that the EA is providing adequate support? What the fuck do you think we have been campaigning for?

So after that entire reply all the detail I tried to put in and all you can comment is "don't use the term cisgender". I'm not going to be woke and follow your set word list just because you tell me to. It's not a slur in the dictionary, if it becomes one I will stop using it. As said before. If it was a slur I would have been banned of mumsnet by now anyway