Now it's "No ND without the T"

[BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn]

The forced teaming is becoming increasingly ridiculous and offensive.

twitter.com/NeurodIreland/status/1670688196290658305?

"I was itching to remind members that correlation and causation are not the same"

I'm assuming it's likely that there is a causal link, even if it's only that ND people can be more likely to be influenced by the fashion.

From the experience of other groups sadly it’s going to be up to members to remind organisations to stay in their lane. And some organisations will listen but some are invested and won’t. Obviously that’s a failure of a support group, which should support all the families who need them, not just the ones that share their political views.

It’s definitely worth members querying if they’re becoming worried about their cash-strapped support organisations not prioritising appropriately and spreading themselves too thinly, if these groups start also campaigning on issues around gender identity.

There are charities working on gender identity already as their sole, funded, mission. More importantly there are so many other areas of acceptance and inclusion extremely relevant to ND kids and families which will never be covered by any of the gender identity charities. So ND kids charities shouldn’t ever be doing the work of the TRA lobby.

Autistic girls in particular. To quote Carly Jones, "when does coffee actually mean coffee?"

I wonder how many trans-masculine women are trying to stop a repeat attack?

At the end of the day Neurodiversity Ireland & ASIAM are neurodiversity & autism support groups. There is absolutely no need for them to be bringing transgender messaging into this support.
They need to focus on their direct roles in supporting neurodiverse children, adults & families.
The comments under ASIAMs tweet & also neurodiversity Irelands firmly put them back in their box.

That French study was an online questionnaire sent to a number of French autism groups asking them to send the link to the questionnaire to their members. 225 women completed the questionnaire. So the research participants were self selecting.

In their report the researchers make passing reference to a survey of 300 female college students in the US, 61% of whom reported experience of sexual aggression but they ignore that survey as a comparator. They also mention a US phone survey of 12000 participants (both m and f) which found 44% of female participants had experience of rape and sexual violence. They disregard that survey as a comparator too.

Instead they use a comparator with a 30% rate. The comparator seems to be a WHO study estimating global rates of sexual violence against women. But in that WHO study “lifetime” refers to events since the age of 15. The French study adopts a different methodology and does not exclude events before the age of 15. (The study states that 112 of the 225 participants’ first experience was before the age of 15.)

I’m not in any way disputing that autistic women are likely to be vulnerable to assault, by the way. But I don’t think that a study covering a completely different geographic area, different sample size, focused on a different age range, and using a different methodology is the most relevant comparator for the French online questionnaire study. The study authors seem to have looked for the lowest estimated rate of SVAW (achieved by using a study which excludes girls’ experiences) and used that as their comparator as it makes the 9 out of 10 rate in their survey look even more shocking.

It would still have been worrying if they’d used the (probably more directly comparable, based on methodology) rate of 61% as their comparator. But less headline grabbing perhaps.

But at the end of the day autism support groups and should focus on supporting & simplifying the lives of children & adults with neurodiversity. Transgender ideology should never be brought into the equation

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12230701/amp/All-war-parental-authority-means-ultimate-victims-children-writes-MARY-HARRINGTON.html

Yep. Those old pesky parents again. Good article.

Having already become 'that parent' when they flew the progress flag (sent to them by INTO!) at my kids primary, this week I've been sitting on my hands when they sent details from a group talking about NeuroPride Ireland events for anyone who identifies as ND (or anyone else who feels they want to come), including online events which are for anyone up to 18 (although they say an adult must be with a child, and a child must be with an adult)

It sounds like a safe-guarding nightmare to me - and they mix in little bits of non-binary and queer language, along with things like colouring sheets, teddy bears picnic (for up to 18 year olds?!) - it just all sets my spidey senses off.

@RecycleMePlease this is completely unnecessary for a primary school. The ET primary local to us has been celebrating pride this month with a series of organised events.. School should be for academics & socialising not political agendas.
I feel really uneasy about the neurodiversity support groups suddenly linking transgenderism to neurodiversity. Transgenderism is an identity, neurodiversity is a disability not an identity. It's crossing the line & parents should be very careful about what their neurodiverse children are being told & what they are exposed to.

Well there is definitely a problem with a large number of autistic girls being sterilised. I'll hazard a guess though that this organisation is in favour of that. It's almost eugenics.

Maybe off topic but I'm a little concerned that anyone can just 'identify' as ND now. I have been assessed by a consultant psychiatrist as having ADHD, until it was confirmed by the doctor I never would have thought of myself as defnitely having it, although I suspected. But it wasn't until a trained professional diagnosed me that I could say 'yes, I have ADHD'

Now that every Tom, Dick and Harry can identify as whatever the fk they want, I'm concerned that the meaning of a diagnosis will be, well, lost.

@BluebellBlueballs yes you are completely right. ND is a disability, it's not an identity. It's going to make it much harder for genuine ND people get the assements they need to make their lives easier & receive whatever they need that they are quite rightly entitled to.

Absolutely - the whole idea that it's an identity not a diagnosis is appalling - ableist - because it suggests that if you can identify in, then you can identify out.

And I agree - it was entirely inappropriate, and the school had been doing a really good job by having an 'inclusivity' week, and talking about all kinds of issues in an age-appropriate way, then they flew the flag, and told the kids that it was inclusive of everyone - which I found particularly disingenuous given that actually disability awareness would be much more appropriate at a primary level, and at our school particularly, yet nothing is made of those national/international days.

I'd agree with you because I genuinely see the problem. But getting a diagnosis is difficult. You face 4 year waiting list for child- that's after probably years arguing the referral should be made. Going private is expensive.

I'm diagnosed. Late diagnosed. And I like you never would have claimed the diagnosis till it was official. But not knowing lead to lots of struggles and not knowing'what's wrong' always trying to fix what wasn't fixable. My diagnosis was the fix. Immediately I just accepted I'm diffferent not wrong.

I look at my undiagnosed autistic daughter. Who very clearly is autistic. But she can't get a diagnosis because she doesn't overtly struggle. For her I feel self ID should be acceptable

No, self-ID should neither be acceptable nor necessary. Your DD should be able to get a diagnostic referral without having to overtly struggle. She may covertly struggle, which in the long term is damaging to her mental health.

Yes waiting lists are long and total PITAs, its all under resourced and under funded and its dire.

But it's important that a diagnosed condition does not become an identity.

You might say your dd is awaiting assessment for Autism. That she shows many Autistic traits/ways of thinking/needs. Describe the needs, that someone may have sensory sensitivities and discomfort, challenges with flexibility of thinking, high anxiety, social communication difficulties - describing what you observe is fair enough. But it may be on assessment that person is not found to be diagnosably Autistic.

It's like self identifying as a lesbian because you identify as a woman (although being biologically male) and are attracted to women (in fact are a heterosexual male) and that fits your self image and choice of words and feelings about yourself better. However it has led to homosexual women being bullied and excluded for not being willing to provide sex to a straight man on the grounds of his internal identity.

And the needs and resources and voice of the original group has been lost beneath a loud wave of those who aren't in fact lesbians at all. Resources for Autistic people and respect for the Autistic diagnosis is crucial. Better to wait and keep those protections than contribute to loosening and tearing that respect and resource base down.

Back in the day, gender dysphoria was deemed a mental illness and a disability. The "it's an identity not an illness" mantra was cooked up because being disabled or mentally ill is so stigmatised and trans people wanted to avoid the "mad" label. But in doing so, they added to the stigma for the rest of the disabled and mentally ill people. When people who want to literally off cut their cocks and tits reject those labels, it adds to the consensus that being seen to have a disability, especially if that disability is a mental illness, is a terrible thing.

But then their whole ideology is based on the idea of sex-based oppression being something that individuals can opt into or out of by simply declaring themselves to be the opposite sex, so the idea of opting out of disability discrimination by fiat would fit perfectly with that world view.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia but now these organisations Neurodiversity Ireland & ASIAM Ireland are promoting on their social media that there is a correlation between Neurodiversity which is a disability & Trangender which is an identity. They are crossing the line, they need to focus on providing support for the neurodiverse, Gender Identity is not their dkmajn.

**domain.

This was not my experience at all. I paid £350 for a private diagnosis with psychiatry uk, paid for via my work cash plan (although there are many private cash plans out there if you can't get one through work) then once diagnosed you are in the system and it's MUCH easier - NHS now pay for private treatment through psychiatry uk and once on meds back to the GP you go! So I paid £0 but if I'd had to pay for the diagnosis it would have been £350 and then nothing after.

@BluebellBlueballs waiting times even for private assessment in Ireland are ridiculous, my friend is going through the process with her child at the moment..

Lightningstrikess · Today 12:48
VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia^ but now these organisations Neurodiversity Ireland & ASIAM Ireland are promoting on their social media that there is a correlation between Neurodiversity which is a disability & Trangender which is an identity. They are crossing the line, they need to focus on providing support for the neurodiverse, Gender Identity is not their dkmajn*.

I think the point may be that they would not think they are crossing any line. On the contrary they would say that being autistic and being trans are on the same side of the line: they are using this correlation to prove that being trans is a neurodiversity, and an intrinsic part of being autistic.

@ScrollingLeaves but is that to say that neurotypical people can't be trans? Because that's ridiculous. There is a correlation in every aspect of life if one wants to find one.

@ScrollingLeaves just to stop & correct you right there.

Transgender is an identity it is NOT a neurodiversity like you just stated. It is an identity hence the term "gender identity"

Neurodiversity is a disability. Neurodiversity is not an identity.

Please don't lob them together.

this a million times!