France - women only lesbian groups banned from Pride events

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia/

'A female-only lesbian advocacy group in France was excluded from their local Pride parade on the basis that they did not allow the membership of trans-identified males. Femmes Entre Elles was labeled “transphobic” for restricting its advocacy to issues faced by women.
Femmes Entre Elles, which translates to “Women Among Themselves,” is a single-sex association for lesbian and bisexual women that has operated for over 30 years. It has been involved in campaigns to support women’s sex-based rights and the rights of lesbian women.
But on May 27, the group was informed via email that they were not welcome to participate in the annual Pride march in Rennes'

Although in one sense @TeaKlaxon's position is quite logical. If Pride has been twisted so far from its original conception that lesbians who don't accept penis are supposed to be Ashamed instead then men being more lesbian than actual lesbians is quite reasonable...

Reminds me of quite a few old posters.

A crisp butty comes to mind, their favorite word is cranks.

Not that it matters who tea is, they all have the same playbook.

So, how do you think it's going, representing those who want to include transwomen in the category of 'lesbian'?

How many sides do people have tea?

Are you selling the sausage? Are you really showing the movement in its best light? Is this the 'joy' and 'kindness' of the Pride movement we all are starting to recognise?

All I see, to be honest, is a series of angry and vindictive attacks on women.

Well younger lesbians are even more supportive of trans people than older lesbians (who are also overwhelmingly supportive of trans people). And I use them as examples because I keep hearing from straight people what a lesbian really is, and those same straight people insist on either dismissing my experiences or claiming I'm not who I say I am (which is fine, by the way, any of us could be anyone).

So what we can do, rather than relying on anonymous internet posters is look at what prominent, verifiable lesbians, are saying.

If you want my experience though, I've already posted it. I've never slept with a trans woman, that I know of. I don't think I would be sexually compatible with someone with a penis. There are some trans women that I think are attractive women. In principle, I would not rule out a relationship with a trans woman if we were sexually compatible, emotionally compatible and I found her attractive.

But crucially, I don't think any of that has any particular relevance to whether trans women are women. Me finding someone attractive, or being willing to sleep with them, is not the definition of what makes a woman. If it were, then lots of women would find themselves excluded from the definition.

So all that has been spouted here - that if you accept that trans women are women, you then have to be willing to sleep with people with penises - is utter nonsense.

'spouted'

blimey.

It is rather stark when you see it all laid out like that. The abject hatred of women who won't accept male people as lesbians. I used to think that it was just deep prejudice against people who disagreed. After this morning's efforts I do now believe there is some kind of disconnected thinking behind the posts. There seems something about the post that shows extreme fuckwittery.

It bears considering what kind of 'lesbian' treats other lesbians like this, doesn't it?

Let's all be 14.

verifiable lesbians

That's a new one on me.

I think you get a certificate, probably along with the T shirt and the free lesbian wife.

Depends who the audience is really.

The UK is a deeply and increasingly transphobic society. But within the LGBT+ community, support for trans inclusion is high and solid. And only increasing every time the mask slips and, for example, people laud the 'LGB Alliance' who have nothing to say about the hoops some lesbians have to jump through to be recognised as their children's legal parents, or to say about the plight of LGBT+ asylum seekers, or about the rise in hate crime directed at Gay and Lesbian people.

Most of us can see what you lot are doing when you claim to be acting in our interests. We can see that it is a lie and that you're trying to use us a trojan horse to attack trans people. We can see it because many of us have lived through the same bigoted playbook directed at us ourselves.

So in terms of gay and lesbian solidarity with our trans siblings, I would say it's going pretty well.

"You lot2 again. Sigh.

It's interesting how accusations are often admissions.

A reminder that sweeping negative stereotyping of groups of posters is against talk guidelines.

Oops. "You lot" again, obvs.

It is rather stark when you see it all laid out like that. The abject hatred of women who won't accept male people as lesbians.

Isn't it.

I'm looking forward to seeing all of the references to 'TRAs' used against any poster who supports trans rights being reported and deleted then.

"on the same side as Posie Parker."

Again, would you like to provide evidence of that accusation?

Because you have just confirmed up thread that you actually don't have any information you are just repeating empty accusations.

You really do not care that you seem incapable of discussing anything with any form of engagement. I don't think anyone reading along by now would consider your intentions here to explain and convince. It seems to be all about how much you can abuse others who don't disagree with you.

'you lot'

No. Because Nazis weren't on the same side as jewish people. They are, on the other hand, on the same side as Posie Parker.

Why are you so concerned with what various public figures say and do as opposed to what you think and what people in this thread are saying?

It all seems very "these people (Nancy Kelley, Sandi Tokvig, et al) are the good ones and the authority which should be heeded and Posie Parker is evil and should be denounced".

I'm sure I can't be the only one here who doesn't unquestionably follow any specific person or group as the absolute authority on what I should personally think about any of these issues - I would never dream of blindly following someone else's views or revering them as some sort of philosophical god to the exclusion of my own reflection on the issues. I might agree with some things Posie Parker says or does and I might disagree with others. Ditto re Sandi Tokvig, and so on.

I just don't see how it helps to cling so rigidly to what some other human once said or did when we are trying to discuss lesbian rights that affect the little people on the ground who aren't famous.

This isn't some kind of holy war - I don't care what your god thinks; not what your god thinks about the god you have wrongly assumed I have pledged allegiance to - I'm interested in what you think and what experience and perspective you have that leads you to your own conclusions, if you please.

All unevidenced ad hominem and guilt by association.

Is 'TRA' a negative term? I had thought it was neutral, but if you find it offensive that's understandable, and I will refrain.

So what "pet Nazis" were you referring to then?