France - women only lesbian groups banned from Pride events

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://reduxx.info/france-female-only-lesbian-groups-barred-from-pride-month-events-over-transphobia/

'A female-only lesbian advocacy group in France was excluded from their local Pride parade on the basis that they did not allow the membership of trans-identified males. Femmes Entre Elles was labeled “transphobic” for restricting its advocacy to issues faced by women.
Femmes Entre Elles, which translates to “Women Among Themselves,” is a single-sex association for lesbian and bisexual women that has operated for over 30 years. It has been involved in campaigns to support women’s sex-based rights and the rights of lesbian women.
But on May 27, the group was informed via email that they were not welcome to participate in the annual Pride march in Rennes'

I'd suggest a short course in logic.

Are you a heterosexual woman? Do you fancy every single man that exists in the world?

If you don't, does that mean you are not heterosexual?

If you are attracted to people of both sexes, you are bisexual.

There's no value judgement or shame in being bisexual.

People cannot just decide to unilaterally change the meaning of words.

Women want our stuff back.

People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.

From my experience unfortunately I have seen this happen amongst lesbians in our social groups (yes, non trans lesbians) and somebody in the group usually has a word about the inappropriate behaviour with them, and occasionally we send out statements about what will not be tolerated, and who to speak to if someone else in the group makes them feel uncomfortable.

No transwomen in our groups have ever had complaints about them to my knowledge.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/lesbian

'relating to homosexual relations between women, characterized by erotic interest in other women" (in continuous use from 1890; the noun lesbianism from this sense is attested from 1870) and the noun, which is first recorded 1925'.

OED:

https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/107453

lesbian, n. and adj.

1. A woman who engages in sexual activity with other women; a woman who is sexually or romantically attracted (esp. wholly or largely) to other women; a homosexual woman.

ˈlesbianism n. sexual or romantic attraction between women; sexual activity between women; (also) lesbian nature or identity.

The word has a clear meaning that explicitly does not include males.

You cannot take this word from lesbians and decide that it now includes men.

I meant in terms of if they're also attracted to men then they are bisexual (and "rocket science, not rocket sexual". Mistype).

ROCKETSEXUALS ARE VALID

Sometimes you need to exclude to include.

So again with ‘I haven’t seen it so it is not happening’.

I have been thinking about that last post. Did you mean that lesbians shouldn’t say anything publicly and communicate the message because some male’s might feel excluded from lesbian dating pools?

Is that what you meant?

“People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.”

oh. Ok. Great. So let’s just leave it because those young lesbians are just going to have their boundaries eroded anyway. No messaging from the lesbian community will help them and help them feel that they have the choice. Again I ask, is this what you mean? Because your posts seem to be very vague and not clear at all.

Except the ‘it’s not happening’ bit. That is very clear!

And exclusion is precisely what is happening with the same sex attracted group of women in France in the name of “inclusion”.

How exactly does excluding a group of women align with these values of inclusion?

To get back to the OP, it appears that ‘transphobic’ now means ‘women who would like to spend some of their time not in the company of men’

✅

good to get these definitions out there

So Pride is now exclusively inclusive. OK. Got that.

If a bloke is trying to chat up woman (or DM-ing her, or whatever the kids do these days), and she says ‘I’m a lesbian’, the appropriate response from the man is to leave her alone

EVEN IF he’s wearing a blouse
EVEN IF he has a lady based gender identity

show some bloody respect.

Lesbians are not attracted to men and cocks.
Women who are same-sex and opposite-sex attracted are Bisexual.
Women who are attracted to gender are Queer and Pansexual.

Lesbian is taken.

"Sometimes you need to exclude to include."

Sometimes you need to exclude Lesbians in order to include Straight Men. Have I got that right?

FFS.

And yes, if you’re a woman and you routinely sleep with fellas, you’re not a lesbian

EVEN IF you have short, interesting hair
EVEN IF you just have always felt that you’re, like, a bit different, ok?
EVEN IF your husband has decided to gaslight you and the rest of the world with his lady gender

again, show some bloody respect

I have friends who are lesbians going out with transwomen and they have the right to determine their sexual choices and their labels...but some people bizarrely over-invested in the sex lives of others and possibly just quite controlling in general, appear to wish to take that from them.

They aren’t Lesbians they’re Bisexual. Transgender people that claim to be women are factually male. They can label themselves whatever they want except the word Lesbian as it is already taken.

Do your friends have to take precautions to avoid pregnancy?
Real Lesbians don’t.

People unfortunately erode each others boundaries all the time, irrespective of gender/sex or orientation. No demographic has a monopoly on this.

I'm old now and have spent a lot of time in the company of a lot of people. I can say with some authority that sexual harassment IS sexed. When I've been hit on by women, a polite "no ta" is all that's required. Once, a lovely lesbian gave me a lecture about why I shouldn't apologise for my sexuality as she certainly wouldn't for hers.

My tween (bi) has learned that saying she's a lesbian works to stop the sexual harassment she's already experiencing from boys at school. Her 'no' isn't enough.

And I do think the whole point is that it's not 'live and let live' as various posters would have it. It's 'live and die in a grease fire'. If women who are same-sex attracted could gather, organise, talk, date, shag without anyone threatening and intruding on them, there wouldn't be an issue. But when people 'have their own march' even the posters on here must know what happens. It happens in public.

Can I suggest to our 'this isn't a problem' posters to register on any lesbian dating app and state simply you are interested in women only (not that you should have to on a lesbian dating app). Then see how long it is until you are banned for being transphobic or non inclusive or whatever bullshit excuse they come up with.
Lesbians cannot exert their preferences and they are being forced to include males. If you deny this you are part of the problem.

What happened to "Queer"? This was the inclusive term to include trans people and gender-attracted.
So @suggestionsplease1 if you are trans or attracted to gender use this term.

Lesbian is taken.

Wasn't there a lesbian group who recently moved their meetings into a private residence of one of the members and the males who wished to attend called the police to attempt to force entry?

"So why are they rocking up at events that organised by that movement for that movement?"

Yet apparently lesbians are totally free to meet to have their own 'movements'!

And male people demanding entry into lesbian spaces and lesbian dating pools doesn't happen does it? And lesbians are totally free to make their boundaries known without being accused of transphobia?

I will see if I can find the tweet from that meeting in the home of a lesbian.

I understand this was nothing to do with them being lesbians, as the march had a large number of lesbians in attendance.

More to do with, IIRC, protesting against transpeople by attempting to hijack the parade which they hadn't signed up for (registering beforehand is a requirement) and causing a blockade and disturbance which resulted in community officers or someone needing to ask them to leave.

Similar deal with the OP, it's nothing to do with the group's sexual orientation. More to do with specifically how they manifest their beliefs on transpeople.

Honestly the bollocks that is spoken about trans people demanding sex is, exactly that, bollocks.

I have friends who are lesbians going out with transwomen and they have the right to determine their sexual choices and their labels

Just because lesbians aren't being pressured in your social circle (which is likely to be due to the fact that lesbians in your social circle date transwomen so are not rejecting them because of their biological sex), it doesn't mean it's not happening to other people. I assure you that it is happening, even if you aren't seeing it.

It's obviously great to have a range of lesbian perspectives on this issue, but please remember that your experience as a lesbian isn't necessarily representative of every lesbian's experience. I've certainly been pressured to accept transwomen as partners as a lesbian and while one obviously wouldn't notice this if they're happy to date transwomen anyway, it does become a significant issue for people who don't subscribe to gender ideology. It's great to hear it's not an issue for you, but it's not fair to suggest that any other lesbian's experience is "bollocks" because it doesn't align with your own.

Personal choices regarding sex lives happen at the individual level, not at a group or demographic level.

But homosexual people are a class of people because we share similar characteristics, and there are some circumstances (like legal protections, etc) where it makes perfect sense to consider gay people at the group level. This is directly relevant to dating transwomen because lesbians as a class have had to endure pressure from males for centuries on the basis that our sexual orientation should be more inclusive of men and "it's such a waste", "you just haven't met the right man", etc. The problem with saying it's an individual preference issue and not a homosexuality issue is that the lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology are unable to invoke any legal protection on the basis of their gayness because the people who do believe in gender ideology have skewed the meaning of the word lesbian to mean something that prevents the subsection of lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology from being able to describe their own sexual orientation or experiences.

I believe that trans people deserve support and respect, but I also believe that biological sex is immutable. So I would be interested in hearing how you think I should describe my sexual orientation in order to communicate that to others without using the words "lesbian" or "transphobe"? Do you accept that lesbians who don't subscribe to gender ideology are valid in their sexual orientation or does their lack of belief in gender identity mean they aren't entitled to the same rights as lesbian gender ideologues?

"More to do with, IIRC, protesting against transpeople by attempting to hijack the parade which they hadn't signed up for (registering beforehand is a requirement) and causing a blockade and disturbance which resulted in community officers or someone needing to ask them to leave."

Oh. Gosh. Another one who seems to ignore the protests, the intimidatory and sometimes violent protests extreme trans activists and allies such as Antifa of lesbians and women who have tried to have their own rallies and march.

Has the hypocrisy and lack of symmetry been realised yet by readers?

How horrific it was that a small group of woman protested a Pride march by actually peacefully blocking it (ie. no violence, no threats and no intimidation) vs the constant harassment, intimidation, threats and violence women and lesbian experience every time they meet for public events.

But then merlin you really haven't been able to acknowledge VAWAG in the past when it was against women and girls you disagree with. You have dismissed it all. Just a cream pie, just silly string, just water. I don't believe your view about that particular protest from lesbians is balanced or credible at all.

Yep, AFAIR it was a support group which had been held in a public building (a library or community centre I think) and were told they had to admit males. When they decided to move their meetings to a members home, it was reported to the Police by at least one male who was told that, regretfully, the Police couldn't make the homeowner admit them...into their private house. Against their wishes. Many of the replies to that tweet stated similar issues with groups having to go underground.