Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School guidelines on gender identities/trans out this week

674 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 19/06/2023 10:36

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22733965/schools-banned-letting-pupils-change-gender-parents-rishi-sunak/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12208907/PM-says-children-not-allowed-switch-identities-schools-without-telling-parents.html

These are the only two articles I could find so far.

'Schools will be forced to tell parents if students are questioning their gender under new Government guidance to be published this week, according to a report. '

Schools to be banned from letting kids change gender if parents say no

SCHOOLS will be banned from letting kids change their gender if their parents say no, The Sun can reveal. And children who want to be called by another pronoun — he, she, they — will not be able to…

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22733965/schools-banned-letting-pupils-change-gender-parents-rishi-sunak

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
CorvusPurpureus · 23/06/2023 22:23

It's worth noting, given the timeline, that it is improbable that PPs received puberty blockers some decades ago.

CorvusPurpureus · 23/06/2023 22:38

ButterflyHatched · 22/06/2023 20:01

@Boomboom22 I advise reading what I wrote, rather than what you think I wrote.

It's true that having female friends and fiercely disliking football lad culture aren't something I'd consider to be indicators that someone is a trans girl, but they were unusual enough at the time that they helped generate a sense that something was up.

Being happy with the way that people gendered you correctly when you had long hair, consistently recognising yourself as a girl even from a particularly young age, feeling a sense of relief over having a sluggish puberty and finding exclusively male changing spaces to be intensely unpleasant and oppressive, however - well, that's a bit of a classic.

Nowt wrong with being a teenage lad who wears his hair long & finds football boring. I can give you several of my IB group who fit one of those ridiculous categories. All young men.

It comes down to: this chap is struggling & needs help OR this chap is struggling, so he's coming in with women's sports/prison/awards because otherwise this chap will be sad.

Fuck off. I have tried to be polite, but no. Fuck off out of women's spaces. We are not obliged to be 'nice' to men who don't like football & want to wear their hair long. Crack on & understand women say #nothanks

Helleofabore · 23/06/2023 22:48

TheBiologyStupid · 23/06/2023 22:15

Hatched did say that they were going to be spending a few days defying gender stereotypes by climbing over tanks, IIRC?

Yes, but hatched has had ample opportunity and has been asked more than once on this thread. So, I now just assume there is none.

And who the fuck cares about tanks. The reliance on stereotypes or whyever the fuck it was mentioned is glaring. Or Is the tank mentions supposed to mean something else completely different? like some kind of competition?

If I mention a dragline does that trump the tanks? Or is a tank the ultimate? When I read about the tanks, It is just like reading about a Barrister’s thing with trains and spitfires. Or Alex Drummond wanging on about fixing the jeep and dressing up for dinner afterwards. (I do laugh like a loon at that, because I was doing services on my own car at 16! Still didn’t make me a fucking man though!

I honestly think that these male people had very restrictive and sheltered childhoods and teenager years.

Kilopascal · 23/06/2023 23:29

I think it’s just that Tankfest is on this week. Probably genuinely off to look at tanks.

TheBiologyStupid · 23/06/2023 23:31

Good points, Helle. I think Hatched also dropped in some virtue-signalling reference to charity work (or something) for Ukraine...? Hopefully that's not where they are doing the tank stuff.

PorcelinaV · 24/06/2023 01:43

However, there's an essential logical leap we're skipping over here - does the treatment make people trans, or does it increase the likelihood of them transitioning?

Well you can consider both possibilities.

Perhaps it prevents many young people from recovering from their gender dysphoria. And if so, I'm guessing that's going to make the treatment look unethical to the public and medical professionals.

Perhaps it increases the number that transition. And then you have the question of long term outcomes for people that transition vs not transitioning, where they still have gender dysphoria.

The question presupposes that being transgender is an affliction that you 'recover' from. We've been here before, my friend.

But apparently young people can indeed recover from gender dysphoria, and presumably in theory that is the healthiest outcome that you would want for people.

ButterflyHatched · 24/06/2023 02:46

Big news day today! Still nothing new about the guidelines though, it seems.

Bit much to catch up on, sorry. I see we've reached the 'fine-toothed comb minutiae' stage of pop-psychoanalysis. Hope it's been an entertaining four pages, but I must confess I'm starting to find all this vacillation between oddly triumphant concern trolling and dismissive declarations of whatever personality flaws I may or may not possess to be a little overbearing. It's certainly been eye opening, though, and I imagine other people who read this thread will find it quite illustrative of the way that trans people are minimised, pathologised and demonised simply for speaking their personal truths when prompted.

I find it fascinating how angry and cynical we seem to be at the idea of trans women being actively involved with Ukraine. I know there were all those smug hit-pieces in Spiked back at the start of the invasion about us all being cowards who you'd never catch out there but I'm afraid several of us were already over there or on our way before the first wave had even been written.

I noticed they largely dropped that angle after seeing how Ukraine rallied around its LGBT population, and after seeing more of Putin's bizarre rants about trans people - must have been really galling to see him so openly state his support for the figurehead of the cause.

@CorvusPurpureus odds are that you probably didn't even know we existed at the time when I was taking blockers, so I'm not surprised you think that.

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 06:18

🥱 morning everyone. What are the chances that the guidance will come out at the weekend?

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 06:29

PorcelinaV · 24/06/2023 01:43

However, there's an essential logical leap we're skipping over here - does the treatment make people trans, or does it increase the likelihood of them transitioning?

Well you can consider both possibilities.

Perhaps it prevents many young people from recovering from their gender dysphoria. And if so, I'm guessing that's going to make the treatment look unethical to the public and medical professionals.

Perhaps it increases the number that transition. And then you have the question of long term outcomes for people that transition vs not transitioning, where they still have gender dysphoria.

The question presupposes that being transgender is an affliction that you 'recover' from. We've been here before, my friend.

But apparently young people can indeed recover from gender dysphoria, and presumably in theory that is the healthiest outcome that you would want for people.

it is good to remember that.

We also know from people who have gender dysphoria who never transitioned that it is very possible to not become a life long medical patient and still live a happy and fulfilling life. With mental health support.

We have heard this from several women who live with gender dysphoria and write about it. As women now in their late 30s and 40s they also have the maturity to evaluate their lives now compared to one of taking regular cross sex hormones and surgery and dealing with the health limitations that brings. (And life shortening side effects that DO occur in female people)

And those women are happy with their decisions not to have taken the medicalised route.

Being told through constant messaging from heavily invested groups and individuals that the only option is to transition medically is part of the issue.

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 06:39

I imagine other people who read this thread will find it quite illustrative

Yes. I imagine others will be reading and will be thinking ‘what the actual fuck is all this misogyny doing on a feminist board’ then keep reading and understand why the things they are reading don’t add up, make sense or just are abhorrent in the hatred of women that is hidden in the decisions discussed on this thread so far.

Some Women learn through discussing this ‘minutiae’. Unpicking this shit allows patterns to be identified particularly when you see glaring inconsistencies. How bizarre that you didn’t know that after all your time as a ‘woman’!

Maybe the constellation of data points in your life didn’t include that on the list? Did you miss that ‘element’?

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 07:40

And the minimisation that people will see on this thread, is from males who can never acknowledge that the majority of teen transitioners are now FEMALE. And not due to some fucking offensive constellation of data points pried open to call a male a female. Teenagers who are female.

Not once on this thread about school guidance will any reader see that male person express their understanding that the treatment pathway they advocate, as a vaguely respected older trans person (their own words), has been deemed by the very experts who wrote the treatment protocols as likely to be unsuited to those female transitioners needs. And don’t worry readers, this poster knows. They have been provided on other threads with the reports and with the clinical opinion. And their attitude was ‘but what about the males’.

Just as readers will also note the dissonance about toilet use. Yet this male still insists on using female single sex spaces. The attitude in the posts is ‘oh I feel for you, but I am doing it anyway. And hey, no one can tell if I wear my skater dresses’. ( I had to look up what a fucking skater dress was- I obviously don’t women properly!)

So, what has already become clear on MN over time is that there are regular reports of schools breaking the current guidance. Particularly when they are allowing males to change in the communal changing rooms with girls which there was a recent thread about. Or where the tween girl was allowed to sleep in the boys room on a trip away.

All because of extreme activists in lobby groups that hold the same views as the poster on this thread have pushed through their own guidance that is in direct contradiction to the existing dept of Ed guidance. That is the harm that came from no debate.

That is why women no longer comply with demands made by men incensed that women don’t accept them as being ‘just like them’.

Hepwo · 24/06/2023 09:28

It's certainly been eye opening, though, and I imagine other people who read this thread will find it quite illustrative of the way that trans people are minimised, pathologised and demonised simply for speaking their personal truths when prompted.

Tedious, smug waffle that apparently is the reason men need to be in women's sports does get discussed. It is illustrative of the inane bullshit that people are making these inclusion decisions on. That's eye opening indeed.

SunnyEgg · 24/06/2023 09:29

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 06:18

🥱 morning everyone. What are the chances that the guidance will come out at the weekend?

It’s another couple of weeks now.

I’m betting the Kemi letter and recent events have had an impact.

JanesLittleGirl · 24/06/2023 09:37

I see that guy who was given puberty blockers about 10 years before they were first prescribed has been back. What was his name again? Oh yes, Walter Mitty.

Anyway, can't stop. Me and the girls who really look up to me have changed into camouflage skater dresses so we won't be spotted and we're about to drive our tanks to Ukraine to do something really important.

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 09:39

HYPERBOLE ALERT!

“trans people are minimised, pathologised and demonised simply for speaking their personal truths when prompted.”

Translation: A male person has been told they are not female and that their identity is only how they conceptualists what a woman is.

That male person produces a misogynistic explanation of why they are female and is told how misogynistic that explanation is. And has all the inconsistencies of their ‘personal truths’ pointed out to them.

That male person continues to advocate for treatments that are very harmful to young female people, knowing this, they continue anyway and cannot understand why woman, mothers of teenagers and children, find that deeply flawed and abhorrent.

Male person continues to post their views and people discuss those views and point out logical flaws and falsehoods.

Male person claims to be “minimised, pathologised and demonised” while posting misogynistic takes of being female, and supporting harmful medical procedures for girls and woman on a feminist board.

Did I miss anything?

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 24/06/2023 09:40

SunnyEgg · 24/06/2023 09:29

It’s another couple of weeks now.

I’m betting the Kemi letter and recent events have had an impact.

yeah, I think it's been noted before, but the cat gender nonsense will no doubt have prompted some double checking

what a time to be alive

ThisIsMyGCname · 24/06/2023 09:42

*Helleofabore, only that no one asked. We were talking about the school guidelines…

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 09:43

Are we expecting those organisations that have published information about ‘cat gender’ to be making changes ?

I mean. Prominent trans people have declared cat gender to be only in people’s imaginations. Surely all genders are now to be revisited?

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 11:11

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 09:43

Are we expecting those organisations that have published information about ‘cat gender’ to be making changes ?

I mean. Prominent trans people have declared cat gender to be only in people’s imaginations. Surely all genders are now to be revisited?

This article on the Mermaids website discusses neo pronouns including for “xenogenders” (which cat gender is apparently one). The author says they use bee/it/they pronouns and they expect people to alternate those pronouns when speaking about them. The idea that discussion of obscure genders and pronouns is “moral panic” made up by TERFs is so clearly bullshit when it is discussed plain as day on mainstream activist websites. If everyone genuinely thinks it’s bullshit then trans activists won’t have any issue with xenogenders and neo pronouns being banned in schools will they because according to them it won’t actually affect anybody.

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/neopronouns-101/

It is also important to note that if a person uses multiple pronouns that they expect these pronouns to be alternated in sentences. For example, I myself go by bee/it/they pronouns so when referring to me, one might say: “This is Rome, bee thinks it could have left its coat in the house so they are just going to go look for it, we should join bee.”

anyolddinosaur · 24/06/2023 11:24

@Helleofabore Good summary. You missed the claim to have PAIS, a medical condition than can be treated and the willingness to advise other young people to seek transition rather than medical treatment.

FedgeHund · 24/06/2023 11:47

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 11:11

This article on the Mermaids website discusses neo pronouns including for “xenogenders” (which cat gender is apparently one). The author says they use bee/it/they pronouns and they expect people to alternate those pronouns when speaking about them. The idea that discussion of obscure genders and pronouns is “moral panic” made up by TERFs is so clearly bullshit when it is discussed plain as day on mainstream activist websites. If everyone genuinely thinks it’s bullshit then trans activists won’t have any issue with xenogenders and neo pronouns being banned in schools will they because according to them it won’t actually affect anybody.

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/neopronouns-101/

It is also important to note that if a person uses multiple pronouns that they expect these pronouns to be alternated in sentences. For example, I myself go by bee/it/they pronouns so when referring to me, one might say: “This is Rome, bee thinks it could have left its coat in the house so they are just going to go look for it, we should join bee.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ57zai5Cpk&pp=ygUdVmljYXIgdHJhbnMgY2hyaXN0aWFuIGNvbmNlcm4%3D

Fair enough the CoE has been done over by Foucault and his Queer ideology (woke gender identity) as they did over the Catholic church, they should make their congregation and clergy aware. The CoE is wealthy.

They tried to take over Baptists in the USA. They have more money than the Vatican from doing the same to the German Catholic church. The Dali Lama ahem.

Out of interest has any part of Hindus, Jess or Islam, been infultrated and taken over too?

Vicar resigns as primary school imposes transgender ideology

A Church of England primary school has taken the unprecedented step of allowing a child to transition from a boy to a girl in the school without informing pa...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?pp=ygUdVmljYXIgdHJhbnMgY2hyaXN0aWFuIGNvbmNlcm4%3D&v=HQ57zai5Cpk

Datun · 24/06/2023 12:19

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 11:11

This article on the Mermaids website discusses neo pronouns including for “xenogenders” (which cat gender is apparently one). The author says they use bee/it/they pronouns and they expect people to alternate those pronouns when speaking about them. The idea that discussion of obscure genders and pronouns is “moral panic” made up by TERFs is so clearly bullshit when it is discussed plain as day on mainstream activist websites. If everyone genuinely thinks it’s bullshit then trans activists won’t have any issue with xenogenders and neo pronouns being banned in schools will they because according to them it won’t actually affect anybody.

https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/neopronouns-101/

It is also important to note that if a person uses multiple pronouns that they expect these pronouns to be alternated in sentences. For example, I myself go by bee/it/they pronouns so when referring to me, one might say: “This is Rome, bee thinks it could have left its coat in the house so they are just going to go look for it, we should join bee.”

Jesus wept. How did they ever think people would do that!

Who the fuck is going to police their speech to that extent? It's absurd.

I'm guessing they were hoping to shift the needle so that when it fell back, opposite sex pronouns didn't sound so bad.

Signalbox · 24/06/2023 12:23

I'm guessing they were hoping to shift the needle so that when it fell back, opposite sex pronouns didn't sound so bad.

Exactly this.

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 12:30

I agree. It could have always been a gambit tactic.

Just like allowing male people to make up ridiculous theories to claim to be female. So that, when the dusts settles, those ridiculous theories make the ‘feelz’ theories focusing on gender and leaving ‘sex’ alone looks more acceptable.

Helleofabore · 24/06/2023 12:31

Like pendulums, but dick swinging instead. Even removed ones.