School guidelines on gender identities/trans out this week

[ArabeIIaScott]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22733965/schools-banned-letting-pupils-change-gender-parents-rishi-sunak/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12208907/PM-says-children-not-allowed-switch-identities-schools-without-telling-parents.html

These are the only two articles I could find so far.

'Schools will be forced to tell parents if students are questioning their gender under new Government guidance to be published this week, according to a report. '

"Sounds like a pretty hollow and unsatisfactory achievement, to me. 'I forced a bunch of people on the internet to pretend they acquiesce'."

"I guess it's power, of sorts."

It is absolutely an instrument of control. And an instrument of enabling claims of victimhood. Which then leads back to the control issue in an unending cycle.

I agree. It is very much a source of power.

And it must be horrific to live a life where you just cannot work out whether people are being truthful with you in their interactions or fulfilling your demand for whatever motivation they have for doing that.

It must lead to never being able to judge someone's words or actions accurately. What a fucked up situation that would be.

I found that post quite manipulative. Framing the behaviour of women as 'religious' or passive. Suggesting we are threatening them, when its us who has to change our language.

I'm not passively avoiding using correct sex pronouns as such or 'coming for' anyone; its just the forum rules don't allow for correct language and I just don't subscribe to gender ideology - it comes with the territory, being a feminist - so its a compromise. Life is fucking full of them, when you're female.

A MAZ ING

makes this whole thread worth while

Indeed. And since we know that hatched didn't actually hatch their instance that there is no such thing as "female bodies" is an insult to their own mother.

Amidst many insightful posts - a thank you to Bernard for this gem:

"tried to convince posters on a site called Mumsnet that there's no such thing as a female body. This is bordering on performance art"

Hopefully when the guidelines finally arrive (after the latest revision to instruct teachers that self ID ing as a different species isn't a good ides) someone will start a thread that centres the guidelines and children in schools. A novelty I know but let's give it a go 😎

"This is exactly why the guidelines for schools are needed.

Guidelines that finally recognise that a small group of people cannot shape language to suit their concept of the world that doesn’t reflect material reality. And that enforcing others to do so means adherence to one group’s ideology."

👏 @Helleofabore

So..... just anything cooked in a tray. Right. So, a frittata could be a 'tray bake'? What about scalloped potatoes? That thing where you slice up potatoes and pour in cream etc.

What is or is not a traybake might be harder to define than what is or isn't a woman.

If pupils, and teachers, are not compelled to call other pupils, or teachers, by their preferred pronouns, then I suspect the desire to identify as something they're not might wane.

It's a salutatory lesson in the guff schools have washing over pupils online though and which is brought into classrooms, isn't it?

The statistical constellation theory of humans.

I spent last summer in the Mediterranean watching electric storms at night and the beautiful multi colour flashes dancing around the clouds with the noise of crackling electricity.

I watched it thinking of ancient Romans and Greeks seeing this same live show centuries ago and how they made stories of the gods warring and playing up there in the clouds, flinging this lightning around. It really does look like a world in the skies at times.

Painters over the centuries captured this in enormous canvases and ceilings. The "movie" makers of their time before film and TV.

It's the same myth making process.

We know now it's just weather!

Like we also know now how sperm and eggs make babies.

Your statistical constellation ain't gonna change that!

Come down off the clouds.

😂

Well here is some roundabout confirmation that children should not be accepted without question.

https://twitter.com/katymontgomerie/status/1671793319750299648?s=46&t=HTxp6zC_d4GZ2FFv4a-YeQ

Montgomery seems to get it at last.

I think this will really help

No one has to pretend someone has changed sex

Still no sign of any actual guidelines then?

Montgomerie says kids are just making it up?

There's a catgender pupil in our school. Is Montgomerie saying that the kid is just pretending? How do we know?

The insistence on absolute belief reminds me of India Willoughby on Big Brother. After much bullying and coercion they got the others (kindly, polite, people) on the show to agree that yes, India was a woman. (Although no-one had actually disagreed on this, they just hadn't felt the need to fawn over India sufficiently.)
But no, even that was not enough, India went on to have a complete meltdown because though the others on the show had placated her by agreeing she was a woman, 'they don't really believe it.'
There you have it.
I recommend watching the episode, if still available, it's very instructive.

This is the only poster I've seen on this forum who has actively and directly misgendered a trans woman in a consistent fashion over multiple posts, rather than the near-ubiquitous pattern of passively doing so by either avoiding pronouns altogether or religiously using they. The effect is identical, of course, but I've just not seen the quiet part said out loud.

I wouldn’t say that not using any pronouns is a passive thing. It probably takes exactly the same amount of cognitive effort as it does to call an obviously male person “she” or to use “they” where you wouldn’t normally use that word. All of these forced adjustments to our language take effort and hinder our ability to get our point across. Also it’s not just the effect that is identical it is the intent. Where “they” or no pronoun is used this is a protest against being compelled to used wrong-sex pronouns. It does mangle the flow of the language slightly but it’s better than having your speech compelled.

Yes, all these constellation models of female and male are produced to try to close the gap between polite humouring and belief.
It's a jealously anthropocentric view of male and female bodies we can attribute to their fear for their own safety and survival.

They are safe and can be safer with male and female reality. There is no benefit to this imposition of beleif.

The effect is identical, of course, but I've just not seen the quiet part said out loud.

Be quiet eh? What a way to live your life.

I think the lack of fawning is a significant issue for some people. In fact, I also don’t think these male people quite understand that sometimes fawning hides fear and discomfort.

Again, all a symptom of this constant demand to be fully compliant and the dissonance it causes.

Fawning is an interesting sociological bi product

Do men fawn over trans men?

Or is there something going on specifically with males who are trans women

Have the guidelines been published yet?

The things that make women’s lives difficult - and at the same time wonderful - almost all stem from their biology and reproductive capacity.

I've found this to be true in my life.

They really, really, don't get it, do they?

I'm actually rather surprised.

The desperation to shut this issue down is one thing. The catastrophically stupid description of it as pretend, is quite another.

It's all fucking pretend.

Can they really not see the consequences of claiming that something impossible is pretence???

"statistical constellations"?? Sounds to me like someone is attempting to apply various statistics only visible at a population level to an individual...!

Anyway, looking forward to seeing this guidance, hopefully it'll mean less worrying about what schools are telling our children!