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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What happened to the thread on the two school girls...

226 replies

ANameChangePresents · 18/06/2023 18:01

...who were being preached absolute codswallop at by their teacher?

I presume deleted, but why?

OP posts:
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19
Zebracrossings · 18/06/2023 22:37

I have complained last year about a similar racial bias and poor kids had to bear the brunt of my complaint the head was visibly rude to the kids and lots of children noticed .

To be honest with you @JemimaTiggywinkles I was discussing complaining and dd said mum please don't as the teacher just lies and says I never did/said that. Apparently a ADHD boy was being noisy and teacher told him to get out of the class . He stomped off and at that moment the Headteacher walked in the class and teacher said , I don't know why but Jack ran off . Poor boy was in trouble. It's sad .

Redshoeblueshoe · 18/06/2023 22:46

Someone has put it on the schools Wiki page

ScrollingLeaves · 18/06/2023 22:51

Zebracrossings · Today 22:22
We had our share of crap in the name of pshe lesson too. Dd 10 told me yesterday they had their puberty lesson where the teacher who is a senior teacher said all babies when conceived are girls and then after a few months in mother's womb some of them grow a penis. This is appalling. I obviously corrected her .

Many people used to think this, and it used to be taught.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 22:51

Flipping heck zebra, that’s shocking! That teacher definitely shouldn’t be allowed to continue. Totally get that you can’t do anything though.

Maybe we need a campaign to get CCTV in all classrooms? That way nobody can lie to get out of trouble. And, of course, the footage is secure.

Boomboom22 · 18/06/2023 23:01

I think the baby girl thing is a misunderstanding of development. Until 6 weeks although xx or xy babies in the womb are the same.
At around 6 weeks the sry gene is switched on by androgen which triggers the development of the wolfian system. If the baby is xy but androgen insensitive they will continue to develop the mulleruan sic? System but not ovaries within this, and so cais would be xy but essentially female without a womb. So some dsds are complicated. But most are not particularly. And all babies are xx or xy from conception as the sperm is x or y.

Boomboom22 · 18/06/2023 23:04

Eg someone with full cais would be thought female until they don't get any periods. They do have breasts and are I would say the only time a biological man can actually be a woman as they are from birth. Tw are not w though and the existence of a very rare dsd, most cases of ais such as Caster S are not complete, does not make other xy people female ever.

Zebracrossings · 18/06/2023 23:06

@ScrollingLeaves yeh like earth is flat and that kind of theories. I was shocked .

@JemimaTiggywinkles you are a mind reader. CCTV and parents should have access to it.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 23:06

I think the baby girl thing is a misunderstanding of development.

I think that is a generous interpretation. I also think that the “all foetuses are girls at first” belief is so prevalent because of the misogynistic idea that girls are just boys without penises. Well, that is the old misogyny of course, because in the new misogyny girls can have penises.

Boomboom22 · 18/06/2023 23:08

Yes it's likely. I have a habit of assuming people understand things and / or cant be that stupid / emotionally led. But they can obviously. It's frightening!

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 23:09

Not a mind reader, I heard it mentioned on Twitter today. Can you imagine? Any dispute at all and have a meeting where the teacher, head teacher, parent and child all sit at watch the cctv together. We could all have so much fun!

I wouldn’t be able to whinge about my boss to my colleagues at lunchtime though. Which would be annoying because he is annoying and a good whinge can really help.

Zebracrossings · 18/06/2023 23:10

@Boomboom22 that's exactly what I was telling my dd that that's probably what teacher ment . Dd said no mum, someone asked so when do we find out if it's a boy or a girl, to which the teacher replied that just a month before baby is born it grows the private part. The teacher in question has four kids of her own so its not like she didn't know any of this .

JemimaTiggywinkles · 18/06/2023 23:13

We have cctv in some areas of the school. And it is really amazing what happens when you say “if we go and watch the cctv will it tell me exactly the same as you just have?” Suddenly a “he hit me and I never did anything at all” becomes “well maybe I did push him first and he shoved me away rather than punched me.” If it were in classrooms I’d never have to deal with another case of “she gave me detention and all I did was drop my pen!!!”

Zebracrossings · 18/06/2023 23:17

I haven't read that thread . Is there a link to the video mentioned in the thread?

Boomboom22 · 18/06/2023 23:32

Zebracrossings · 18/06/2023 23:10

@Boomboom22 that's exactly what I was telling my dd that that's probably what teacher ment . Dd said no mum, someone asked so when do we find out if it's a boy or a girl, to which the teacher replied that just a month before baby is born it grows the private part. The teacher in question has four kids of her own so its not like she didn't know any of this .

Ha, so that teacher didn't find out the sex at any of her 20 week scans then. Unless 40-20 weeks is one month. Jeez.

Boomboom22 · 18/06/2023 23:33

They do get taught this in biology still? I'm going to ask the hof tomorrow. He'd be horrified to hear any of his team teaching this stuff as would the pe or pshe leads.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/06/2023 23:57

Zebracrossings · Today 23:06
ScrollingLeaves yeh like earth is flat and that kind of theories. I was shocked .

No, it was the way it was understood and taught as science until relatively recently I think. The only reason I know this is that it came up on another thread and various posters mentioned they had been taught this. If the teacher is older that might explain it.

I’ll see if I can find it.

Datun · 19/06/2023 00:02

So you can be prevented from seeing what they're teaching your children, and if your children film it, those threads, certainly on here, are also targeted for deletion.

Jesus.

That video is proof that children are being indoctrinated into a dangerous ideology.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/06/2023 00:17

@Zebracrossings

This was part of the thread I mentioned about the fact that it did used to be taught that foetuses begin as females.

I had been surprised that I had heard trans woman India Willoughby say that…..

Bosky · 29/12/2021 07:10
JellySaurus

“She says that all embryos begin as female”.

That's what I was taught 35 years ago. But I was also taught to keep a person warm if they had a fever, and to put butter on burns.

Same here - several times - in Zoology A Level, then Human Biology at University and then in a University course on Embryology that we studied with medical students.

(About embryos - not fever and butter on burns )

I keep seeing people poo-pooing the idea but until very recently that is how it was understood that mammalian embryos developed, ie. the default was female.

This was also cited as an explanation for males being less likely to result in a live birth and being less likely to thrive and survive in early childhood, ie. due to the stress of the shift in the "natural" developmental pathway from female to male.

According to this article, the "default female theory" was only disproved in 2017.

It’s Hard Work Being a Boy (and, It Turns Out, a Girl)
SEPTEMBER 6, 2017

Basic biology tells us that in humans and other mammals, embryos with two X chromosomes develop as females, whereas embryos with one X and one Y chromosome develop as males. If only it were that simple. As it turns out, genetic makeup doesn’t fully determine which sexual organs will develop in utero.

Every developing embryo, irrespective of its sex, at one point contains both male and female reproductive tracts, referred to as the wolffian duct and the müllerian duct, respectively. If the fetus produces testosterone and the anti-müllerian hormone (AMH) gene products from the Y chromosome — these molecules elicit cellular signaling events that lead to the destruction of the female müllerian ducts. The wolffian ducts subsequently develop into male reproductive organs, such as the seminal vesicles, vas deferens and accessory structures. In the absence of testosterone or AMH, the wolffian ducts degenerate and the müllerian ducts develop into female reproductive organs including the fallopian tubes, uterus, cervix and upper vagina. These pathways were first identified and elucidated in the 1940s by the French endocrinologist Alfred Jost, who conducted intricate experiments using rabbits and showed that female development is a "default" pathway that needs to be actively overridden for the development of male sex organs.*

A new study published in Science by Humphrey Yao, Ph.D. challenges this age-old concept of the female pathway as “default” and shows that the development of femaleness is also an active process. The authors implicated a protein called COUP-TFII as a key player that is required to actively eliminate the wolffian duct in a developing female embryo in order to give it female characteristics.

Continued at:
biomedicalodyssey.blogs.hopkinsmedicine.org/2017/09/its-hard-work-being-a-boy-and-it-turns-out-a-girl/

It’s Hard Work Being a Boy (and, It Turns Out, a Girl) | Biomedical Odyssey

https://biomedicalodyssey.blogs.hopkinsmedicine.org/2017/09/its-hard-work-being-a-boy-and-it-turns-out-a-girl/

Rightsraptor · 19/06/2023 06:43

It's also in the online version of today's DT.

off · 19/06/2023 07:14

It's a shame the teacher was named in the clip, but I'm glad it was released online — without the clip going viral, I doubt newspapers would've picked it up, and nobody would've ever believed the report of young teenage girls.

I can imagine the AIBU thread…

"DD(13) told me that in today's life education lesson where the discussion touched on being catgender, the teacher said there are three sexes, male, female and intersex, and you can be any gender. When DD disagreed and said she believed there were only two genders, the teacher called her despicable and homophobic, told DD she identified with her genitals, and said DD should go to another school if she refused to change her opinion. AIBU to think children should be allowed to politely express their opinion in these lessons?"

You'd get approximately 312 responses saying "Lol and you believed a teenager? Ask the school/teacher for the REAL story, and don't go storming in like that parent who automatically believes their little darling can never be in the wrong. Or actually, don't even waste their time. Discipline your child, because I can say with 99% certainty what actually happened was, she shouted out rude, inappropriate, offensive opinions when the hardworking teacher was trying to provide your child with an important education. Children are always remembering things inaccurately, and perceive firmness as shouting, and anyway she was probably making it up to try and get the teacher into trouble." And on, and on.

mauveiscurious · 19/06/2023 07:34

Clymene · 18/06/2023 18:57

Those girls were really brave and articulate.

Any teacher who tells children with expulsion for not buying into gender ideology should be sacked.

It was quiet scary to listen to, these girls have a GC stance they don't have to agree with everything they are taught. On a general point this is how we learn.

The teacher was very threatening

SunnyEgg · 19/06/2023 07:35

off · 19/06/2023 07:14

It's a shame the teacher was named in the clip, but I'm glad it was released online — without the clip going viral, I doubt newspapers would've picked it up, and nobody would've ever believed the report of young teenage girls.

I can imagine the AIBU thread…

"DD(13) told me that in today's life education lesson where the discussion touched on being catgender, the teacher said there are three sexes, male, female and intersex, and you can be any gender. When DD disagreed and said she believed there were only two genders, the teacher called her despicable and homophobic, told DD she identified with her genitals, and said DD should go to another school if she refused to change her opinion. AIBU to think children should be allowed to politely express their opinion in these lessons?"

You'd get approximately 312 responses saying "Lol and you believed a teenager? Ask the school/teacher for the REAL story, and don't go storming in like that parent who automatically believes their little darling can never be in the wrong. Or actually, don't even waste their time. Discipline your child, because I can say with 99% certainty what actually happened was, she shouted out rude, inappropriate, offensive opinions when the hardworking teacher was trying to provide your child with an important education. Children are always remembering things inaccurately, and perceive firmness as shouting, and anyway she was probably making it up to try and get the teacher into trouble." And on, and on.

Yes

The recording was needed as otherwise there’d be loads of excuses

GP75 · 19/06/2023 07:38

anyolddinosaur · 18/06/2023 19:36

The girls action in releasing the video was quite possibly illegal. Apparently some people on twitter have been encouraging people to send her and the school abuse. Are we sure they have named the right person on twitter? Does anyone here want to be complicit in someone receiving abuse? It's something for the parents to take up first with the school.

It's not illegal, they've done nothing wrong, which piece of legislation are you referring to? 🤷‍♀️

ResisterRex · 19/06/2023 08:09

Remember when the NAHT said - a mere 3 months ago - they'd not seen any evidence of things going wrong in schools?

news.sky.com/story/claims-of-oral-sex-and-choking-lessons-prompt-government-review-into-sex-education-critic-says-is-politically-motivated-12828929

Wonder what they think now?

I also wonder if they've decided that maybe their coating up to Diversity Role Models (of Asda "love has no age limit" fame) might not only have been a bad idea, but also - um - evidence of these things going very badly wrong?

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/06/18/love-has-no-age-a-letter-to-asda/

www.naht.org.uk/About-Us/Organisations-we-support/diversity-role-models