Four found dead in property

[WhiteFire]

The police are not looking for anyone else, we know how this generally unfolds.

RIP Dawid, Maja and Monika. Sorry society has failed yet another family, I can't see an end to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

but you don't get to make it all about you and police other women's speech/try and shut them down on a public forum

Says the woman who told me to find another site if I didn't like hearing different opinions.

So now we are in to "women are better at calming angry men because men don't hit women" on a thread about a man murdering his wife and children.

Maybe she didn't speak to him calmly enough?

There's a certain internal irony in that stance that I'm not sure the poster appreciates.

"In the U.S. several months ago, a mother killed her three children - and then jumped out her second-story window in an attempt to take her own life. She lived.
Post-partum depression was blamed and her husband called for empathy and kindness and understanding."

Not familiar with the case but it does cross my mind that if she were struggling so much why was she alone with the kids why was the husband not looking after the kids?

I don't want to derail with a discussion on PND and I absolutely do not think this is true in all cases but I've seen a fair few cases where nearly everything is falling to mum and she needs support/help.

Astounding isn't it?

I have a friend who I've distanced myself from because her boyfriend is a domestic abuser. He's not hit her yet and according to her that's because she's different and she doesn't wind him up like the others did 😞

I'm in awe of all that you do. Thank you for this post.

She killed them when he popped out to the shops if I recall correctly. She wasn't left with them for long amounts of time and was a patient at a treatment facility. It's a shame she wasn't in it full time.

If so many people were commenting on the content of my posts then I'd probably start to reflect on what I was saying and why it offended so many people.

The posters in mumsnet feminist section aren't at all representative of women in general. Last study I read found that only 7% of UK women identify as feminists despite 75% believing in equality - a concerning figure in its own right as it was lower than the % of men that want equality and suggests 1/4 of women don't want equality. Even in Sweden it's only 40% in last poll I saw.

I don't know how the posters accusing me of blaming it on women have reached that conclusion (seems to be the default accusation when people disagree with the common view on here).

My main point is that it's pointless sitting back and saying 'men' should sort it because over 99.9% of men don't kill their partners and really only the perpetrators are responsible.

If we believe in group culpability then you're all responsible for the women erasing our rights by trying to welcome men into our changing rooms etc. And also the high number of female human traffickers - 40% of traffickers in America and the majority in parts of Europe if I remember rightly.

OK, let's just ask the abusive men nicely to stop being abusive.

Sorted

I think I'm going to engage my PC Plum strategy. Grey rock all the way.

My main point is that it's pointless sitting back and saying 'men' should sort it because over 99.9% of men don't kill their partners and really only the perpetrators are responsible.

It is a valid point - but one that many here must refuse to accept. Blaming men as a class is a central theme of theirs. They will not abandon it, there is no alternative for them.

Blaming men as a class is a central theme of theirs.

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

How dare we!

Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

Nobody's feelings are hurt. Grow up.

@sawdustformypony

Give your head a wobble, mate. If you need to scratch that need you have to tell women off, you could not have chosen a worse spot. For God's sake. Do you ever read back and think "yeah nah, not the time nor place"?

AKA, recognising that males are responsible for 98% of violent and sexual crimes that occur, towards females and other males.

It's why there needs to be a register of repeat offenders with regards to DV. Not all men will be on it but those that matter will.

My main point is that it's pointless sitting back and saying 'men' should sort it because over 99.9% of men don't kill their partners and really only the perpetrators are responsible.

Think of family annihilators as the snowflake on the tip of a mountain. The rest of the snow is murderers in general. The tip if the mountain is CSA and rape, the bulk of the top is violent crime in general. Still a small(ish) percentage of men. Maybe 5-10%. But the rest of the mountain isn't nothing. It's men (25-30%) who when asked if they would have sex with a women who was coerced/held down/incapacitated with no consequences, would. Then it's men who coerce, men who use prostitutes, men who have a 'happy ending' in Thailand, men who watch violent porn, men who use intimidation to take up public space, men who use money and power to control, men who do things that are juuuust this side of legal.

And the foothills are all the men looking at the mountain who think, 'nothing to do with me'. Many of whom are happy to make 'jokes' about it and think nothing more.

It's NOT family annihilators, it's a culture that breeds them.

Such a good post @MrsTerryPratchett

It's men (25-30%) who when asked if they would have sex with a women who was coerced/held down/incapacitated with no consequences

Not to be 'that person' but I don't think that can be claimed as a reliable statistic. I remember the study and it was a very small sample size, like like 50-60

I'd be reassured to find out that was the case. That's a very high figure otherwise.

It's obviously enormously difficult to estimate figures on this, but from rough observations and calculations I've got a (very rough) figure of 1 in 20 men, or 5%, who have sexually assaulted.

That's higher than it ought to be but it's considerably less than 30%.

It's men (25-30%) who when asked if they would have sex with a women who was coerced/held down/incapacitated with no consequences.

Not to be 'that poster' but I don't think that's a reliable statistic. I remember the study and it was a very small sample size, like 50-60 respondents, and they were all from the same American college.

I remember it because there was outrage at the time, lots of mention on here and articles online. However, when I googled it to find out more I found other articles saying it wasn't reliable as the young men had been awarded course credits for participating so many only did it for the points and gave silly answers/trolled the replies for shits and giggles.

There's lots of good data on male violence so I think it undermines the cause if we use dodgy data. Same with the oft quoted '1 in 5' statistic also from American colleges - the authors themselves said the data shouldn't be taken as proof of anything!

Sorry, somehow posted early.

If it was 30% of men I'd not want to leave the house!

Lack of credibility won't stop it being trotted out in the future - it serves it's purpose.

From memory the finding was from a sample of male students at a small American university. The purpose of the study was to see if there was a difference in responses to other terms used in questions put to the sample instead of the word 'rape' when describing such crimes.