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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Four found dead in property

379 replies

WhiteFire · 18/06/2023 16:27

The police are not looking for anyone else, we know how this generally unfolds.

RIP Dawid, Maja and Monika. Sorry society has failed yet another family, I can't see an end to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

Dawid Wlodarczyk, 3, Monika Wlodarczyk, 35, Maja Wlodarczyk, 11, and Michal Wlodarczyk, 39

Four people found dead in Hounslow flat named

The bodies in the west London property include those of an 11-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:30

ArabeIIaScott · 20/06/2023 12:47

Nobody, but nobody, said that.

Except they did.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 15:34

I am so sorry for your loss. I tangentially knew a family who suffered similarly, and have nothing but contempt for those people who seek to justify and make excuses for violent, controlling, abusive men.

Thank you

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:35

ArabeIIaScott · 19/06/2023 22:13

Well, that's the most crass and fucking tone deaf comment I've read in weeks, and that's saying something.

And as usual you're not able to explain why....

What's so outrageous about saying we should focus on the actual perpetrators rather than blaming it on all men? What posters on here are suggesting is basically like blaming all black people for gang related stabbings in Hackney.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 15:37

Except they did.

People said it isn't women's responsibility to change abusive men.....that's different to what you are suggesting.

Tiddlypomtiddlypom · 20/06/2023 15:37

I can’t believe women are still peddling NAMALT on behalf of the poor men. Fuck. I actually can’t bear it.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:42

What's so outrageous about saying we should focus on the actual perpetrators rather than blaming it on all men?

Well it brings me back to the old question, doesn't it? how out of all men do we tell who's going to do this and who isn't?

By the way @MovinGroovinBarbie third time of asking - any sympathy for the woman and children killed? because you're metaphorically stepping over these bodies to say poor man, poor man, he must be mentally ill and completely ignoring what he did. I mean, fake it if you can't actually feel it.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:43

I'm not at all sure what you think women can do. Surely this is mens problem to solve. Until they want to solve it, we cant do an awful lot.

So, Arabella, nobody but nobody said that women can't do much to help, right?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:48

Why is it women's job to deal with male violence? why can't the men?

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StephanieSuperpowers · 20/06/2023 15:50

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:48

Why is it women's job to deal with male violence? why can't the men?

They're too busy doing the violence to deal with it. They can't handle both jobs.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:51

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:48

Why is it women's job to deal with male violence? why can't the men?

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 15:53

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:48

Why is it women's job to deal with male violence? why can't the men?

Exactly this.....but i guess if, like @MovinGroovinBarbie , you're approaching this from the perspective that some men can't help it, then that influences how you think it should be addressed.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 15:55

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

So he's happy for other men to give men as a class a bad name? He doesn't see any issues with that?

Does he call out sexist, misogynistic behaviour when he sees/hears it?

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:55

Oh fuck off. Emotional manipulation won't work

Ah right. So no sympathy for the victims then. I mean, that was pretty obvious given that you're actually ignoring there are four people dead not just one but I thought I'd ask.

If you don't want a discussion or are offended by differing opinions a discussion forum probs isn't the place for you

The irony. BTW, I'll post where I like, what I like, when I like, subject to MN posting rules. I'm also big enough and old enough to decide what the place is for me, but ta for the concern.

I wasn't going to say anything obvious like 'oooh, I touched a nerve' but it sure looks like I did.

gallina · 20/06/2023 15:56

@Tiddlypomtiddlypom that is harrowing
😢

ArabeIIaScott · 20/06/2023 15:57

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:43

I'm not at all sure what you think women can do. Surely this is mens problem to solve. Until they want to solve it, we cant do an awful lot.

So, Arabella, nobody but nobody said that women can't do much to help, right?

You've had plenty of experienced, kind, wise and patient women explain things, post evidence, give you their time, and you're now flinging insults and swearing. Not appropriate given this thread, not necessary.

Either you're a troll or you're acting like one, and I'm not engaging further.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:57

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:51

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

Using that logic it's not my job to deal with male violence because I'm not a man.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:58

Either you're a troll or you're acting like one, and I'm not engaging further

Ditto. Stuff like these murders are depressing enough without post after post of 'but what about the poor menz?'

SquirrelSoShiny · 20/06/2023 16:18

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 15:58

Either you're a troll or you're acting like one, and I'm not engaging further

Ditto. Stuff like these murders are depressing enough without post after post of 'but what about the poor menz?'

I think there is a bit of a concerted invasion of MRA types atm. I'm noticing them on multiple threads.

BordoisAgain · 20/06/2023 16:26

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:43

I'm not at all sure what you think women can do. Surely this is mens problem to solve. Until they want to solve it, we cant do an awful lot.

So, Arabella, nobody but nobody said that women can't do much to help, right?

You do realise we can see what you claimed previously and how it differs from what you are claiming here, right?

'Do nothing' is not the same as 'do much'

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 16:29

All this group culpability shit does is palms the problem off onto some vague group, most of whom won't do anything as they're not violent themselves and don't associate with violent men. It hasn't worked in the past and it isn't working now

Tbh if I was a man I'd think very carefully before stepping in to help a stranger. Especially if the people telling me it was my duty were actually 4x less likely than me to be assaulted by a stranger. It doesn't matter that men are bigger and stronger than women because most non violent men aren't good at fighting and plenty of thugs carry knives nowadays, which they're more likely to use on someone they're unlikely to beat in a fistfight.

Look at the middle aged family guy from Land Rover who challenged a load of 14yo boys for their behaviour and was fatally stabbed. Bet his family wish he'd not stepped in.

And you can be sure as a man that nobody will step in and help you if you end up being the victim. Just look at all the social experiments on YouTube. They usually feature a staged encounter like where one partner chokes the other up against a wall. When the woman is the victim people rush to help. When the man is the victim people laugh and film it on their phones.

I've heard people on here try to argue that people are usually less concerned for the man because a woman presents less threat to him than the reverse, but how does this explain people finding it hilarious?

The thought of stepping in to help a stranger and ending up getting your head stamped on whilst people laugh and film it doesn't really sound appealing tbh. And in many cases the abused woman will still side with her partner. I remember somebody on here recounting a story where the abusive husband claimed the good samaritan had started the fight and the woman actually corroborated this and went against the guy who'd tried to help her.

BordoisAgain · 20/06/2023 16:31
Singapore Zoo Smile GIF by Mandai Wildlife Reserve

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MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 17:28

It appears now that we've moved seamlessly onto 'and anyway male violence is all women's fault when you come down to it.'

Surprised the 'Not my Nigel' types haven't blamed the woman for driving her husband to murder her and their children.

knittingaddict · 20/06/2023 17:52

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:51

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

Neither is my husband, but having seen an abusive man close up and seen the damage it does, he certainly doesn't think "it's not my job". He's not passively sitting around wailing uselessly about tragedys like the one in this thread. He wants to do something when he retires and has more time.

No idea yet what that will be. The obvious thing is to fund raise for women's services, but that's just dealing with the symptoms.

He certainly did something when it landed on our doorstep. Helped her move out, went to the solicitor with her, put together evidence, went with her to all family court sessions. He isn't a saint and expects no praise for doing what he did, just a father doing the bare minimum to protect his child and grandchildren.

Unfortunately there are thousands of other people's children and grandchildren who need help too. This is everyone's problem, but men making this unacceptable is the real solution. Most abusive men are misogynists. They won't listen to women. Women making excuses for abusive men is part of the problem.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 18:00

So if it's too dangerous for men to challenge other men when they witness violence what on earth are women supposed to do????

@MovinGroovinBarbie