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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Four found dead in property

379 replies

WhiteFire · 18/06/2023 16:27

The police are not looking for anyone else, we know how this generally unfolds.

RIP Dawid, Maja and Monika. Sorry society has failed yet another family, I can't see an end to this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

Dawid Wlodarczyk, 3, Monika Wlodarczyk, 35, Maja Wlodarczyk, 11, and Michal Wlodarczyk, 39

Four people found dead in Hounslow flat named

The bodies in the west London property include those of an 11-year-old girl and a three-year-old boy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65937795

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 18:16

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 18:00

So if it's too dangerous for men to challenge other men when they witness violence what on earth are women supposed to do????

@MovinGroovinBarbie

Tell them to #BeKind, of course.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 18:18

Tell them to #BeKind, of course.

Ah yes...... that wonderful phrase that keeps women in their place and tells them they must be people pleasers 🙄

GailBlancheViola · 20/06/2023 18:44

All this group culpability shit does is palms the problem off onto some vague group, most of whom won't do anything as they're not violent themselves and don't associate with violent men. It hasn't worked in the past and it isn't working now

@MovinGroovinBarbie MEN have held the reins of power and control of the finance that enables that power for thousands of years, they made the laws, they enforced the laws, they made the decisions, they set the standards for society. Now IF they were at all bothered about male violence they could very well have sorted it out by now don't you think? Thousands of years and STILL male violence is a problem they wring they hands about and give useless sound bites. The reason they haven't sorted it out comes down to either apathy, incompetence or they just rather like the status quo.

Women have never held nor do they now that level of power and yet you think it is down to women to understand and help. NO. Male violence is a male problem to address, they have the power and the means available to do so but they won't.

There are NO excuses for male violence and it is long overdue for men to step up, accept they have a problem and fucking address it.

AllTheGigs · 20/06/2023 18:58

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 15:51

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

nor are we. Or most other women. And yet you think we should step up?

You are talking utter tripe now

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 20/06/2023 19:01

Women have never held nor do they now that level of power and yet you think it is down to women to understand and help. NO. Male violence is a male problem to address, they have the power and the means available to do so but they won't

It puts women in quite a neat bind because if they can't sort out male violence and it continues, people like that poster can just say 'See? we asked women to sort it out and they can't. All this continuing violence is women's fault. And it proves women are useless, as well.' Which is probably her opinion anyway.

GailBlancheViola · 20/06/2023 19:45

Yes, MrsDanvers if there is a way to blame women for what men do it will be found.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/06/2023 19:57

Why is it my partner's job? He's not violent or misogynist.

I'm confused. 'We' are supposed work on mental health. I'm not mentally ill, why is it my job?

Oh, it's my job because I'm not a twat and I understand it affects everyone. Doesn't your partner? Is he a bit eccentric and selfish?

Women are already doing the hard work. Men need to as well. And since they have a lot of the power and money, it might actually work.

LoobiJee · 20/06/2023 20:20

SquirrelSoShiny · 20/06/2023 16:18

I think there is a bit of a concerted invasion of MRA types atm. I'm noticing them on multiple threads.

Well, some posters have certainly shown that they are tremendously in tune with a male-centric view of the world. I’ll say that for them..

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/06/2023 20:21

I suppose we should be flattered. I think the MRAs are worried we're a little too supportive, organised and numerous.

Before, they ignored us because we were little women talking about nappies and periods.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 21:00

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 18:00

So if it's too dangerous for men to challenge other men when they witness violence what on earth are women supposed to do????

@MovinGroovinBarbie

Call the police. Nobody is obliged to put their life in danger for a stranger.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 21:09

Call the police. Nobody is obliged to put their life in danger for a stranger.

Riiiight...... of course. Why didn't we think of that before 🙄

I don't think people are necessarily expecting people to put their life in danger but there are certainly instances where behaviour can be challenged...... would your DH call out misogynistic and sexist comments for example? Because that's a start.
Would he make it clear that he finds male violence against women abhorrent. Would he ostracise make friends for being abusive to women? All of these this send a message without putting yourself in danger.

Saying that, most men I know would not stand by and watch a man behave violently or aggressively towards a woman.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 21:10

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 18:00

So if it's too dangerous for men to challenge other men when they witness violence what on earth are women supposed to do????

@MovinGroovinBarbie

I actually spent almost five years in management at a big security provider a fews years ago. We mainly did big shopping centres, many of which became night spots in the evening with bars and restaurants etc.

Every month I had to do several 'walk the floor' days/evenings and attend site to see how things were running. I've seen loads of incidents with angry men, almost always drunk. Sometimes angry they weren't allowed back in for being too drunk. Other times having a huge argument with their partner or another make - often outside the bar but still in the shopping centre so still our responsibility.

You know which security guards were the best at talking these angry men down? Yup, you guessed it. The female guards. By a country mile.

I'm pretty sure it was because men often see other men as a challenger or feel threatened (fight or flight). In a fight it's often the guy that gets the first good punch in that wins, so you could see the men readying themselves for action if it went south. Squaring up to each other.

However, men are generally conditioned not to hit women and I definitely noticed that they'd be less likely to physically escalate when speaking with female security.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 21:18

GailBlancheViola · 20/06/2023 18:44

All this group culpability shit does is palms the problem off onto some vague group, most of whom won't do anything as they're not violent themselves and don't associate with violent men. It hasn't worked in the past and it isn't working now

@MovinGroovinBarbie MEN have held the reins of power and control of the finance that enables that power for thousands of years, they made the laws, they enforced the laws, they made the decisions, they set the standards for society. Now IF they were at all bothered about male violence they could very well have sorted it out by now don't you think? Thousands of years and STILL male violence is a problem they wring they hands about and give useless sound bites. The reason they haven't sorted it out comes down to either apathy, incompetence or they just rather like the status quo.

Women have never held nor do they now that level of power and yet you think it is down to women to understand and help. NO. Male violence is a male problem to address, they have the power and the means available to do so but they won't.

There are NO excuses for male violence and it is long overdue for men to step up, accept they have a problem and fucking address it.

But this is the problem. It's a tiny proportion of men that hold all the power. Most are just normal people trying to get by and look after their family.

Class analysis doesn't really work outside of very broad analysis. It certainly isn't the tool to use in finding solutions.

Consider the following example....

Two groups. One consists of ten female execs on £100k each. The other consists of nine homeless male veterans and Bill Gates.

Which group is more privileged?

Class analysis would say that the group with Bill Gates is the most privileged as that group has a net worth of billions. However, 9/10 members of that group are homeless whilst all of the other group are financially comfortable.

Class analysis just doesn't have the necessary nuance to make broad judgements.

knittingaddict · 20/06/2023 21:54

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 21:10

I actually spent almost five years in management at a big security provider a fews years ago. We mainly did big shopping centres, many of which became night spots in the evening with bars and restaurants etc.

Every month I had to do several 'walk the floor' days/evenings and attend site to see how things were running. I've seen loads of incidents with angry men, almost always drunk. Sometimes angry they weren't allowed back in for being too drunk. Other times having a huge argument with their partner or another make - often outside the bar but still in the shopping centre so still our responsibility.

You know which security guards were the best at talking these angry men down? Yup, you guessed it. The female guards. By a country mile.

I'm pretty sure it was because men often see other men as a challenger or feel threatened (fight or flight). In a fight it's often the guy that gets the first good punch in that wins, so you could see the men readying themselves for action if it went south. Squaring up to each other.

However, men are generally conditioned not to hit women and I definitely noticed that they'd be less likely to physically escalate when speaking with female security.

🙄🙄🙄

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 22:21

I've seen better debating skills from my 10yr old niece. 😂 It's kinda embarrassing when posters have to use memes/emojis because they can't substantiate their beliefs in a proper discussion.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 22:27

And the funny thing is, I've likely witnessed vastly more male violence than most of the posters on this thread having worked in security.

Also worked for a digital forensics company for a while that contracted for the police. I've worked on cases involving murder, rape, child abuse, bestiality, child porn, serious assault....you name it I've seen it. I wasn't an analyst, more involved on the client side and with process management but I needed to know the cases our team were working on in detail.

DreamTheMoors · 20/06/2023 22:37

BlackAndWhiteUsername · 18/06/2023 16:57

How many cases of male partner taking the lives of female partner and children.

Now how many of female taking the lives of her male partner and children

In the U.S. several months ago, a mother killed her three children - and then jumped out her second-story window in an attempt to take her own life. She lived.
Post-partum depression was blamed and her husband called for empathy and kindness and understanding.
In her psychosis I’m pretty sure she would’ve taken her husband’s life had he been there and had she been able to.
Scenarios like this are incredibly tragic all the way around - do we really need to compare notes or statistics?

LoobiJee · 20/06/2023 22:49

DreamTheMoors · 20/06/2023 22:37

In the U.S. several months ago, a mother killed her three children - and then jumped out her second-story window in an attempt to take her own life. She lived.
Post-partum depression was blamed and her husband called for empathy and kindness and understanding.
In her psychosis I’m pretty sure she would’ve taken her husband’s life had he been there and had she been able to.
Scenarios like this are incredibly tragic all the way around - do we really need to compare notes or statistics?

I’m pretty sure…” Seriously? Was it a shooting?

If her husband had been there, I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t have been able to kill three children single handedly, let alone him, as he would have been able to intervene, overpower and prevent her. Unless she had a gun.

DollyTrolly · 20/06/2023 22:51

And the funny thing is, I've likely witnessed vastly more male violence than most of the posters on this thread having worked in security.

Yeah it's hilarious 🙄

Male violence never fails to crack me up..... Jesus, consider your use of language please. There are those of us who have made it clear that we are personally living with the consequences of male violence and there's nothing fucking funny about it all.

MovinGroovinBarbie · 20/06/2023 23:04

This reply has been deleted

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Bluekangaroo123 · 20/06/2023 23:32

You can keep saying it @MovinGroovinBarbie but you seem to be in the minority thankfully. It’s honestly disgusting that you continue to focus on the man & not his poor wife & children.

Dumbo12 · 21/06/2023 01:28

Why any apologist for male violence, who believes that women are responsible for that violence, is even posting on this thread evades my understanding. Other than suggesting that the female victim of this horrendous crime is to blame, as in appears that women are, or should be, able to descalate male violence.

Brefugee · 21/06/2023 07:17

I've seen plenty of male violence thanks. Some weekends on guard in a giant HQ full of drunk squaddies, and even having rank and occasionally an actual loaded weapon didn't stop being vervally and physically assaulted. One incident involving the SIB (serious military police)

So bollocks to sending women in to cope with male violence and more looking out for your mates, stopping your mates and yes stepping in if safe, calling the police if not.

DollyTrolly · 21/06/2023 07:17

Your lack of empathy is astounding @MovinGroovinBarbie

If so many people were commenting on the content of my posts then I'd probably start to reflect on what I was saying and why it offended so many people. I wouldn't double down and continue to hurt and offend. I would also be very mindful of the language I used and would certainly not try and come across of glib or flippant.

You may have more experience in observing male violence but what is very, very clear is your lack of understanding of domestic violence, domestic homicide and family annihilation. You don't seem to want to understand either as you are unfailingly convinced that your position is correct. Not once have you conceded that point you've made might not be correct - you just ignore and carry on.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 21/06/2023 07:40

Bluekangaroo123 · 20/06/2023 23:32

You can keep saying it @MovinGroovinBarbie but you seem to be in the minority thankfully. It’s honestly disgusting that you continue to focus on the man & not his poor wife & children.

She hasn't actually acknowledged their existence in the whole thread and got abusive when challenged about that. Still we got the benefit of her CV and extensive experience,