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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cancel Culture and The Chilling Effect - a thread to share your experiences

219 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 01/06/2023 10:22

Does the 'chilling effect' or 'cancel culture' affect you?

This is an anonymous forum, so we can speak relatively openly. But how do we speak in real life?

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Would you raise it at work?
Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
At home?
On social media?

Are women able to speak about these issues?
Have you done so and experienced consequences?

I think the effects of these issues have far reaching consequences that we really have hardly seen reported or looked at so far. How's it affecting society, women in society, relations between groups?

Thanks.

OP posts:
ValBiro · 04/06/2023 14:35

Not any more... Learnt the hard way with one of my siblings who now won't talk to me.

SirVixofVixHall · 04/06/2023 14:39

ArabeIIaScott · 04/06/2023 07:33

Yep, imagine having a month and flags and festivals to support all the protected characteristics?!

Agree with all of this, imagine a whole month for women with little green while and violet things pinging up everywhere (I was adding some things to my favourites on Vinted last night, the hearts are all little rainbows, ditto rainbows all over my Tesco shop) or a month for physical disability .
I wonder whether it is as simple as gay men being demographically financially better off and so having a greater sphere of influence ?

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 14:43

IwantToRetire · 04/06/2023 01:00

Not sure I could afford to support your cat's life style! Fresh mince?

If my cats knew they would be packing their little knapsacks and asking for directions to yours!

That's exactly what the neighbours cat did. He's not been home in years.

CanWeDiscussThisPlease · 04/06/2023 14:48

SirVixofVixHall · 04/06/2023 14:39

Agree with all of this, imagine a whole month for women with little green while and violet things pinging up everywhere (I was adding some things to my favourites on Vinted last night, the hearts are all little rainbows, ditto rainbows all over my Tesco shop) or a month for physical disability .
I wonder whether it is as simple as gay men being demographically financially better off and so having a greater sphere of influence ?

In distant, more innocent times, wasn’t this phenomenon known as “the pink pound”? I miss the simplicity of those days.

Yes I am sick of seeing smug rainbows all over the place right now. If a shop has them on display, I walk out and I don’t go in again. I have a very healthy amount of disposable income so these businesses are missing out on my custom. I’m sure I’m not the only potential customer swerving the rainbow.

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 14:51

CanWeDiscussThisPlease · 04/06/2023 14:18

Name changed here.

I’ve lost several friends over this issue but gained new ones. It’s been a very eye opening experience but I’m happy to have friendships which feel more honest and which don’t dodge the issue in an awkward way. I attended a very prestigious Ivy League university and am really disappointed in the number of apparently smart adults who can’t, or refuse to, see the issues at heart here.

Yes I have raised the issue at my children’s London school (private) with varying degrees of success. One staff member borrowed Material Girls as she wanted to know more, another member of staff (male) was openly hostile and attempted to mock my concerns. The second experience was very disappointing. I’m not fearful of speaking out about this issue - I will not have my children, early teens, brainwashed and gaslit. I am open to changing their schools if necessary.

In my personal life I talk about gender ideology openly. I want my kids to grow up understanding that they don’t need to be anxious about voicing opinions that are in fact very reasonable and valid.

I keep my mouth quite shut at work - US bank - but have a pretty clear idea who my female allies might be - we learn to communicate in a highly coded way and read body language. All my colleagues under the age of 35 are woke as hell so I have very little in common with them.

we learn to communicate in a highly coded way

I recently got a package of little badges and have been giving them to women I know are GC but can't be as vocal as me so now they go round with little badges with the sufragette colours and the female symbol. It's like going back to the old days of true blind dates "I'll be the one in the green coat with a book on my left hand"

raspberrywine · 04/06/2023 14:55

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Yes, I am. I feel so strongly about it that I can't not speak about it, if the opportunity comes up. I am making people think, changing their minds or opening their eyes, one person at a time. My family, my friends, the plumber, the Uber driver, whoever.

Would you raise it at work?^
In my previous work, I used to. Everyone knew my stance. Not outright open yet in my new workplace, the type of place with training on how to be a good ally, pronouns in email etc. I have refused pronouns and spoken quietly to a few colleagues. Give me a few more months. ^

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
Yes, I have. When DC started secondary school, last year during pride month on a particularly vile lesson that was taught, and this year, I'm currently having discussions with them on their RSE provision.

At home?^
Oh gosh yes! All are GC here. I really feel for women whose children are deep into the ideology. For those women whose partners don't understand or are hostile about their views, I don't know how you do it. My partner is fully on board. He works with teens with social, emotional issues, teens with autism, teens have who trauma and teens who have awful home lives (and a mixture of all above with some teens) and has seen the devastating impact of the ideology on these teens (mostly girls). ^

On social media?
I'm on Twitter and here talking about feminism.

Catiette · 04/06/2023 15:08

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?

Comfortable, no. But since a terrifyingly woke-bro boss about 5 years ago, I sense the office has become quietly & passively cynical, and it’s come up a few times, briefly.

Would you raise it at work?

I have a few times across the years, in some carefully worded emails and well-intentioned questions to a naive DEIJ trainer who, as people have experienced above, mentioned every possible form of discrimination but sex, cis-ing & identifying their way through the presentation in a way that made the omission less incidental (concerning enough!) than a fairly clear product of her support of the ideology. She seemed a bit bemused, but hopefully at least reflected on what I said.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
At home?
On social media?

I worry about girls I know about to start secondary, wondering if I should suggest that their - I suspect, blissfully ignorant or reluctant-to-risk-speaking-up - parents keep a weather eye on things like toilets & resource providers...

Are women able to speak about these issues?

No! I literally shook for a period after the DEIJ chat. Each time I email the BBC etc. I can’t help wondering if I’m being put on some blacklist. And I‘ve wanted to email unis, but haven’t dared because I fancy going back for an MA/PhD sometime & worry it would lower my chances.

Have you done so and experienced consequences?

Family members were very uncomfortable - more from bemusement &, I suspect, a sense I’d fallen down a rabbit hole… until Isla Bryson. Interestingly, since then, several have shifted from effectively shutting me down (in a way I’d found pretty upsetting) to talking with me about it more freely when I bring it up, though I try not to go on too long (which is fair enough!) I find it infuriating in a way - I’d told them all this before the headlines! - but am, mainly, immensely relieved; it was like a weight was lifted. Friends, I’ve explained to a few, who were horrified, & one’s now an active Twitter warrior for the cause. But I’m very cautious.

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 15:18

I completely relate to the 'coded language' references. I tend to skate around the issue until I'm sure of the other person's views but the amount of people who know exactly what you're talking about and are knowledgeable about the subject has been fascinating, particularly as they have often been as cautious about bringing up the subject as me. There's been a lot of 'I know! Can you believe it!' conversations.

One friend has completely opposite views to me so we just avoid the subject.

There is very definitely a change going on though. A family member who, two years ago, absolutely refused to discuss women in prisons with me and basically said that anything deviating from TWAW was rank bigotry, told me last week that the whole thing is completely out of control and is a fan of JRK. It was an utterly bizarre conversation after two years of everyone determinedly avoiding the subject in order to maintain family relations. A massive relief in fact.

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 15:21

I've also been giving out the FWR poetry book to those I know would appreciate it and had one friend quote one of my poems to me, which was a very weird (but nice!) feeling!

Tricyrtis2022 · 04/06/2023 15:23

Y'know the way this reads, we might as well be political dissidents in the old Soviet Union. It's insane.

I'm so grateful for those people in my life who are supportive of our position.

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 15:26

Waitwhat23 · 04/06/2023 15:21

I've also been giving out the FWR poetry book to those I know would appreciate it and had one friend quote one of my poems to me, which was a very weird (but nice!) feeling!

😁 did you manage to keep quiet?.( And please go and post that on the other thread as I'll forget where you posted it. Plus I'm currently talking to myself mainly on that thread whilst we wait for the e book version to get out of review. FairyKindleMother has wicked poem writing skills as well as kindle skills)

Boiledbeetle · 04/06/2023 15:29

Tricyrtis2022 · 04/06/2023 15:23

Y'know the way this reads, we might as well be political dissidents in the old Soviet Union. It's insane.

I'm so grateful for those people in my life who are supportive of our position.

I think we are in the main, but with things akin to an occasional episode of Allo Allo thrown in every now and again to keep everyone going!

JaneBeyre · 05/06/2023 20:02

I am open with my family and a few friends. My sister knows a local Labour MP who plays along in public but mentioned an evening with a transwoman and referred to a certain confidence and entitlement that "seemed very male"... she was probably waiting for my sister to pick up the baton.

It feels like more people are much more aware now that the whole thing is an absolute crock of shit but test the waters a little rather than come out and say so. I have noticed a lot more silence towards TRAs - it's falling out of fashion.

But there are also people I admire who are still caught up in Be Kind and don't spend enough time learning about the issue beyond the headlines. Yet. So I am quiet because I don't want them to think less of me.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/06/2023 21:11

JaneBeyre · Today 20:07
If no one has posted this already, this site was taking submissions:

https://www.noconflicttheysaid.org/

Don't read them unless you want to get enraged, though.

Thank you for posting that. I’d never have known of it.

I read some of the accounts and you are right.

I was struck by a special all women AA meeting during lock down, when alcoholics were struggling, being ruined and made ineffective by a transwoman chair taking over. They were also a celebrity.

It ended up just as a narcissist’s show being imposed on the women there. It was useless to them.

Apparently women have very different support needs for alcoholism compared to men and can best support each other as women in a unique way.

This was in Australia I think.

https://www.noconflicttheysaid.org

ArabeIIaScott · 05/06/2023 21:19

Thanks, Jane, that's a useful steer.

I will look into setting up some kind of site for specifically UK women to record their experiences, but give it a couple of weeks!

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 05/06/2023 21:24

This site is run from Australia, New Zealand members of the LGB Defence, and supported by LGB Alliance.

Interesting to see it is supported by LGB Alliance.

And that it has contributions not just from Australia.

IwantToRetire · 06/06/2023 01:15

I will look into setting up some kind of site for specifically UK women

Wont the biggest issue being having enough volunteers to read submissions in advance. It wont be possible to have a system that automatically posts contributions as no doubt, once it is up and running, TRAs and MRAs will flood it with derailing contributions.

Maybe MNHQ has some under used moderators who will be able to help out? (joke)

willlow23 · 06/06/2023 04:15

I see GC posts all the time on social media that I'm dying to share but won't because of possible backlash - which I also know at the time is ridiculous and if I was brave (as I should be because I'm right!) I would just be out and proud about my beliefs!
I have discussed it with friends who are like minded but only when they have said something first that made it clear they had the same opinions !
I also have two friends who have daughters of early teen age who have decided to identify as they/ them and have changed their name to a more masculine version.
All parents very respectful and also wider group using chosen name and trying their best to remember "they/ them" / but sense parents don't really relate other than wanting their child to be happy. I was chatting to one of those mums today who was talking about her child and interchangeably switched between "she" and "they" which I found interesting- also happy that it's not just me I'm always catching myself when chatting about the kids (eg our daughters are friends so I can say something like "are the girls upstairs?"!!

I would not share my real thoughts to these mums because at the end of the day they are living it and I am not and they just want to try and understand their child and be a good parent, all while being very confused about what's going on and how to manage it positively.

It was also interesting to me to hear from several mum friends who live in middle - upper middle class neighborhoods who describe a bit of an "epidemic " of kids in school identifying as whatever -

It's just one of those topics that are such a minefield - but in reality we should all be shouting from the rooftops about what's going on !!

willlow23 · 06/06/2023 04:18

I would also like to add that when it has come up I've found those friends who discuss it are the ones that think the same of me - I'd question my relationship with a friend who had the opposite view tbh but would likely not get into a debate with them about it

willlow23 · 06/06/2023 04:29

@LonginesPrime "Anyone who refuses to accept gender ideology (which they believe to be indisputable fact) as indisputable fact is unreasonable in their eyes and therefore not entitled to fair or reasonable treatment.

No gender ideologue is going to feel any sympathy towards anyone disagreeing that gender ideology is the truth as they believe it is a fact and that gender critical people are the ones denying "the truth". So they don't view the silencing as being inflicted on any "reasonable" people, as anyone who disagrees with gender ideology is unreasonable by definition in their eyes and deserving of any silencing they experience. "

This, to me, is the chilling thing and makes me think "will they win?"

willlow23 · 06/06/2023 04:33

@DollyParkin "I have surreptitious conversations with other middle-aged women at social events & sometimes at work. There are codes or code words one can say to carefully test out the waters. I had one such conversation at a work event last night and we bonded over what's going on. We both laughed about how we circled around the subject till we knew we were "safe.""
I've also found the recent media coverage about sports has made some unaware people aware and asking more questions which has opened the door to discussions.

But it's very "1984" to have to test the waters when talking to other women for fear of repercussions

YetAnotherSpartacus · 06/06/2023 10:20

I found out about Holly's site on here.

I think it is more about men in women's spaces than silencing.

Yes, I imagine that the administrative burden of sifting out the TRA crap would be enormous.

ArabeIIaScott · 06/06/2023 11:11

Sadly and rather stupidly, I had forgotten about that tedious inevitability.

OP posts: