Cancel Culture and The Chilling Effect - a thread to share your experiences

[ArabeIIaScott]

Does the 'chilling effect' or 'cancel culture' affect you?

This is an anonymous forum, so we can speak relatively openly. But how do we speak in real life?

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Would you raise it at work?
Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
At home?
On social media?

Are women able to speak about these issues?
Have you done so and experienced consequences?

I think the effects of these issues have far reaching consequences that we really have hardly seen reported or looked at so far. How's it affecting society, women in society, relations between groups?

Thanks.

I have a TW and TM in my family. Expressing any GC views would be seen as an attack on them whereas, in fact, I feel nothing but compassion for them - I believe both are transitioning as a response to childhood trauma.

I work in the NHS, which is totally captured. I know some of my colleagues are sceptical about transitioning children, and, following the Tavi scandal, it is possible to discuss this cautiously, as regards patient welfare, but my career would be at risk if I were openly GC.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Only to trusted friends. I have one in particular that I talk to almost daily about it and we share articles and news stories.

Would you raise it at work?
No definitely not, my company is completely captured by gender ideology. I fear there would be repercussions for speaking out.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
Perhaps - depending on what the issue was.

At home?
Yes - a lot. My OH and my teenagers are very pro women's rights.

On social media?
Only here. As it's the only place I feel safe enough to express my views. I don't even follow anyone with GC views on social media in case others

Rightly or wrongly, I feel (hope) that the tide is turning a little.

I only talk about it with immediate family.

My children are grown but most are GC. 1 has several NB friends including some that consider transition M2F. They carefully encourage people to accept themselves as they are and wear/present as they wish whilst maintaining the reality of sex,

I genuinely believe I would lose my job if raised at work. Public sector and completely captured.

I don't follow most GC people publicly as think that may find its way back to work

This is the only place I have dared post about being gender atheist.

I do feel that the UK media is turning a tide and starting to support women occasionally. I think sport is landing more effectively with men as they seem to understand the issues of fairness in sport better than the safeguarding and fear that women raise.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Not really. Ironically my husband told me I was too angry about it and it was ruining our evenings because I was so cross about it. My oldest adult child agrees with me (I'm GC or "sane" as I like to think of it) and calls people out who call JKR transphobic. Younger adult child has drunk the kool aid.

Would you raise it at work? NFW! Although I did quietly discuss it with a Head of HR but it was as I was leaving my role. She agreed with me.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school? Hmm, no kids at school now but probably would tbh.

At home? As above
On social media? To an extent. I have GC friends on SM and agree with them and like their posts. But bet loads of my friends are on the other side. I have been defriended by some. They can fuck off frankly.

Are women able to speak about these issues? No! There is a chilling effect on free speech. Thank goodness for Janice Turner, Kathleen Stock, Posie Parker, JKR, Maya Forstater and all the others who speak out.

Have you done so and experienced consequences? AS above.

I can't possibly raise it at work, I work for a very captured public sector department. However, I'm finding some others at work and we're building a network.

My DH is a scientist and is aghast at this idea being promoted that people can change sex. He now notices all the times that trans is shoehorned into everything.

I haven't spoken to my friends about it much. I have several completely rainbow-washed lesbian friends who are very active in the LGBT scene, so I fear they might well fall out with me if they knew my views. Which is odd, as one of them in particular is a self-described gold-star lesbian and really doesn't like men at all.

And I'm very quiet on social media (except on here )

I am a conflict avoider (who admires agitators with the ovaries to challenge) and I have been too afraid to question a document affecting my work which I know because of MN misrepresents the law and threatens single sex spaces. I didn't speak up about my concerns about a group for age 8+. I don't discuss with family.

I switch radio stations when any trans or gender critical discussions come on if my dc is listening and mostly avoid the topic.

I notice that the 'Gender Debate' topic on The Discord channel for 'The Rest is Politics' (ethos disagree agreeably, middle ground politics, you have to pay to subscribe) has had surprisingly few gender critical contributions - and even more curiously nothing at all for the past two weeks when Stock has been front and centre in the media - and suspect they have been mostly effectively silenced by the be kind, don't debate trans people's existence, this topic is a cesspit type comments on the thread (or now it's so quiet, congratulations on not making this topic a cesspit). I was looking forward to agreeable disagreement but I would be too stressed and anxious to post on there even anonymously even though I think what I have to offer is balanced, respectful and informed (evolution makes us dread being disavowed from the group).

On the flip side I have asked intelligent questions from the early days in my workplace, I have I think sometimes made people think. I have supported trans young people without reference to being critical of gender ideology or adopting affirmative care - I have given them space to think about what they think, what they want and what they need. I have encouraged parents that they are not bigots for worrying about what to do in their child's best interests. I have questioned GIDS about their practices and signposting when relevant. I have discussed the sport issue with my dc before they aligned with the mainstream views of their peers. I have differentiated sex and gender in my discussions with dc. I have spoken up to support and reassure colleagues in clinical settings who have voiced their care and concern for patients while worrying that their approach will be seen as bigoted and wrong (and note no one else has an issue with this, but few speak up).

Bloody hell. Reading all these makes me realise how privileged I am to be able to speak freely.

It also makes me realise that my inability to keep my gob shut in real life would probably have got me in serious shit in work. On a site level it wouldn't have been a problem. But when dealing with outside companies and agencies I'd have absolutely said the wrong thing to the wrong person.

What is obvious reading these is the very palpable fear of being outed, sacked, shunned, targeted just for having a different point of view (and the correct one at that)

It's truly horrifying how much women have been shut down.

I feel your "mouth open, insert both feet" pain. I don't post anything on social media, despite being a lifelong feminist, because I'm terrified of saying the wrong thing and losing my job. To add context, I don't really discuss politics on my Facebook as most of my friends and neighbours vote differently but I have never worried I would be sacked for supporting Labour.

The difficulty is in researching/gathering evidence of absence, I think.

That's the problem with the nature of the topic - the people who are actually being silenced (and I consider myself to be in that category) are necessarily unable to stand up and be counted because that's the nature of being silenced.

The problem is the conflation by transactivists of people who are being stifled, like Kathleen Stock and Maya and JKR, and the probably thousands or more of women who are actually being silenced and who rely on the stifled voices who are brave enough and sufficiently resourced (or who have nothing left to lose) to continue speaking out on our behalf.

That's why it's so frustrating when the people who do speak out talk about the 'chilling effect' get dismissed as talking nonsense for the fact they are speaking about the fact that people are unable to speak.

It's obviously in transactivists' interests to assume that the only people who have a problem with gender ideology are the ones who are speaking out, because that's how the nature of bullying everyone into silence works. They make an example of the people who do speak out to keep everyone else silent, and then it's easy for them to claim that the majority of society agrees with them, when the truth is that they're simply not disagreeing because they understand the personal cost of doing so.

As horrible as it is for them, I think it's actually a good thing in a way for people like Hilary Cass and Baroness Falkner to experience what the rest of the women in the UK have been experiencing over the past few years, as it helps them to understand it. Thank heaven we live in a society where women can now head up organisations and inquiries, as we'd be even more screwed if it were still just men running the show!

@zebracat unfortunately I think in 20 years time the trans who went through hormone therapy and /or surgery will be the "me too" brigade of the next generation..

I do not openly talk about this issue at work. I work in a very ‘captured’ profession and am constantly dodging training on the issue.

My family know my position. My kids know what sex is and what gender is. They are fed up with ‘trans’ peers demanding so much from others - for example constant name changes and have concluded themselves that they are troubled kids. My DH finds it all ludicrous and sees the damage to women - for example our DD plays sport so this is a real issue for us.

Social media- absolutely not ‘open’ I would lose friends immediately. I stick to posts about wildlife and rescue dogs. I came off Twitter due to the mind fuck it was creating.

I am very very very wary who I talk to. What pisses me off the most is the thrown away comments made by some friends when I KNOW thanks to MN I have read so much more than them. Talking of which…of to read more or Material Girls

I can’t tell you had sad it makes me that I am not brave enough to talk about it. But it would threaten so many aspects of my life. So I sit on it, I read, not just MN but the sources the fabulous posters reference. I watch and I listen to podcasts, clips, etc.

I also do minor things that cheer me up. For example I now have a few dinosaur nicknacks - no one but me knows why. I have a little pin that says ‘witches walk among us’ above my screen in my office. These minor things make me feel less alone.

I realise it is relatively more easy for me as I am retired and that makes me aware that I need to speak out so that others who are intimidated know there is support out there.

I do speak out. I refuse to collude in a lie. I don't care if I am called a transphobe or a bigot. The problem is that we cannot rely only on people who have either nothing to lose or don't care what we do lose. And I have lost friends, but it's a sacrifice I have consciously made to uphold reality.

If everyone is too timid to uphold reality we might as well give up now. The tide is turning - sport has probably done more than anything - to display the nonsense that is gender identity. But we need to show more courage.

We need to be more Riley Gaines.

One day when I don’t need my job I’ll speak openly

I speak out, yes. And every time I do so, I get messages and quiet support.

I am very painfully aware that many women are not able to speak up openly. I would say that job loss is the over riding motivation, followed by fear of social judgement.

I've lost one or two friends, but gained more. I have undoubtedly lost work over it.

It’s risible to say there is no chilling effect - do those who say this not see the angry demos/denuniciations/job losses? Of course they do. They have an effect and are designed to - to bully and coerce women into silence. I’m open with my family, but careful how I express myself with my teens as they are fairly liberal minded and school is very “Be Kind”. I’m not open with my views at work, partly because of it causing trouble (I think it would) and partly because we have a TW working there and I would be concerned about upsetting them. They are not at all militant and just want to live their life as far as I can see, which is fair enough. Otoh I was part of pushback against unisex loos. If it was necessary I would speak my mind, but so far it hasn’t been luckily. I’m not aware of any issues at school, but of course I don’t know what they are teaching. I absolutely would take the school on if I thought they were teaching something dangerous.

It’s risible to say there is no chilling effect - do those who say this not see the angry demos/denuniciations/job losses?

They would only see them through the lens of their own social circle and their preferred media outlets, so it might be "transphobic teacher ousted - a great day for trans rights" as opposed to "someone just got hounded out of their career for stating that human beings can't change sex".

Because this is a religious-type divide, gender ideologists aren't seeing gender critical people as innocent people who are getting silenced but as the bigots who should be silenced. Anyone who refuses to accept gender ideology (which they believe to be indisputable fact) as indisputable fact is unreasonable in their eyes and therefore not entitled to fair or reasonable treatment.

No gender ideologue is going to feel any sympathy towards anyone disagreeing that gender ideology is the truth as they believe it is a fact and that gender critical people are the ones denying "the truth". So they don't view the silencing as being inflicted on any "reasonable" people, as anyone who disagrees with gender ideology is unreasonable by definition in their eyes and deserving of any silencing they experience.

Thus gender ideologues believe that no reasonable person is being silenced.

I have raised it at work because I felt ethically compelled to. All I did was to suggest that a full-blown acceptance of the whole she-bang of gender ideology might potentially not be evidence-driven or a always good thing and I lost out on a promotion (my stance was noted) and am sidelined by my colleagues. I live in fear of the students finding out which they well might (I suspect they guess because I don't share pronouns). I am tortured by fear, guilt, and impotence daily because I can't do more but I feel so compromised. I'm in an area where the debate is directly relevant.

I don't do social media and I have stopped socialising.

No kids at school and I currently mostly occupy the house by myself.

Yep, self justification fallacy.

Yet I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope things start to change really soon, this is intolerable and can't continue.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly?
Yes and no. With friends, I'm cautious. Even with people I've known for decades. We all say the same. We all skirt round the subject until we're sure we're safe. Have I lost friends? Yes.

Would you raise it at work?
I'm self employed but my professional organisation was very captured; rather less so now after very sudden resignations of those most behind the 'be kind' philosophy. I don't generally mention it, but I work in a very, very woke industry so it is only a matter of time. Have I lost work? Not so much work as marketing opportunies but yes, defending JKR.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school?
N/A - children long past school stage.

At home?
DH is very GC; DD and I generally don't discuss it. Her reaction when we first did was why don't you do something about it, which spurred me on to crowdfunding Maya and others. DS alas no longer talks to me because of this issue. It is a great sadness. Ironically it was him going off the deep end after I mentioned one of JKR's first GC tweets that actually peaked me.

On social media?
Only on here. My other SM accounts are for work and I avoid all topical references there.

I am not prepared to lie to my DC. This does not go down well in DC’s household, and I have a huge dilemma over how tactful I should try to be. But attempts to be tactful have so far failed, so at the moment I feel I have little to lose by being outspoken. But there is the constant fear of them going no contact, which is a big big pressure to conform. The TRA unwillingness to engage in any kind of debate is very frustrating indeed. If I was clever perhaps I could wheedle some actual opinions/explanations out of them, but I’m not clever, I’m bigoted and a transphobe whatever I do.

Are you comfortable to talk about gender/sex openly? Pretty much. But my children (teens) aren't and, although they agree, are quick to hush me if it comes up, or seems about to come up, in public. I think this is due to the atmosphere at school where such ideas are verboten.

Would you raise it at work? Not unless there was a pressing need to. So long as all rights are being respected I wouldn't raise it.

Would you/do you raise it with your child's school? Yes, have done. Governors currently dealing with my complaint.

At home? Yes.

On social media? Only anon, but I use all social media anonymously.