Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight

[chouxchoux]

With the brilliant Kathleen Stock.

Anyone planning to watch?

(Apologies if there’s an existing thread I’ve missed).

They didn't go into the gender critical argument deeply enough. I didn't see anything about transwomen in women's sports for instance. There were far more TRA voices.

I wonder if Katy Jon is still using women's spaces, despite their realisation that this could scare/frighten/alarm women?

But do you think people get WHY it matters ? I am not sure that point was talked about clearly enough. Julie talked about violence but it is so much more than violence. It is also our data, our sports prizes, our dignity and our language.

Why won't any of them explain what human / civil rights trans people are not being afforded in the UK at present?

Far too much missed out - I feel it might be misunderstood by those who don't know much?

I do love the way Scott speaks, not just how she expresses herself, but how she sounds and how she forms her speech. If I were L I'd have a terrible crush.

@coronabeer, yes that’s it exactly! I was thinking of Brent but yes, a camper version 😂

I don’t know what to say about the hymn.

The choir was very baritone for a women’s choir.

Yes. It felt like it was just only starting to set the scene, and then it stopped!

No deep looks into the arguments.

This could easily be a whole series - but that's often the problem - where the fuck do you start, where do you stop?

Katy Jon has a rather too-large hoard of unread book in that study. Imagine having all that staring you down every day.

Well I assume they’re unread, unless Katy is an impressive speed reader.

😂

That should definitely have been part 1 of 3 or 4.

Disappointing overall.

Not much analysis there at all. If I didn't already know way too much about it, having spent far too much of the last 5 years immersed in this stuff, I am not sure I'd be much wiser after watching that.

Was it because of those Norwich Green Party weirdos that Graham Linehan moved from Norwich, do we know? I think they'd chase me away.

I know it was billed as being evenhanded, and yes it was. But it was really far too superficial, in my opinion.

Basically let's just all be nice and talk.

There was no debate. No argument. No proper real life examples, particularly, or why women need single sex spaces. No talking about women's trauma in a rape refuge. No talking about elderly women who want same-sex intimate care. Nothing about sport.

Just skimmed the surface.

The two digging transmen genuinely look like they have a lot of issues.

All the trans people talking about hate, but not a single bloody example of it!

Is it a series? Because otherwise I don't really see that it achieved anything.

At least Katy Jon recognises it and sees it as a valid concern.

How much that has modified behaviour, who knows.

India is being unhappy on twitter.

Stock is magnificent. However, I found the programme a little disappointing overall and can't help but feel so much was left out - trans-ing of children, the confusion/conflation with UK/US trans rights and of course, the huge elephant in the room - AGP.

But, it was an excellent starting point and hopefully will encourage more people to speak out.

Yes the singing at the end was all very earnest. Reminded me of those Christian ‘rock’ bands you get.

Really wasn’t the deep dive it could have been but given its Channel 4 it could have been a lot worse.

And I see our old friend Stephen is complaining about the programme and not knowing what it was going to be like when aired. Has Stephen been getting flak for taking part? (I’m not on Twitter)

Good.

Stephen Whittle was commenting that some participants retracted their permission.

If was that bad, why did Stephen still agree to be in the final cut?

That was anti-climatic. I think if I was a person who did not know about the issues, I would still not really know about the issues.

I would think that doc stock and Julie are simply reasonable stating that sex cannot change. And that women’s spaces should be preserved for women’s needs. If they had have brought in sports I think it would have blown more of the ‘we just want to get on with our lives’ narrative away. It would have been ‘some’ want to just get on with life.

Kass and Lily’s ‘people don’t understand us’ shite came across as just that. Self absorption. Finn McKay came across as supporting modern young people to assert their personalities while never once acknowledging the extreme demands.

it was all very mellow.

If this is what is meant by taking the heat out of the discussion, then I am not sure it actually does give a ‘good’ overview. It gives a nuetral overview that gives very little in information.

Crikey. India's pals don't seem very happy, either.

'Channel4 absolutely shocking hate against the #trans community. The next murder is on you.'

'#GenderWars shows we can't trust cis people. At all. Most of the transphobia I've ever faced has been from the LG in the LGBTQIA+. It's about time we took on direct action. Bigots can only hope we use soup in future. Cis folk will kill us.'

'I am repulsed and outraged that@Channel4
has decided to run the despicable #GenderWars documentary. Continuing to give false legitimacy (and an unchallenged platform) to the transphobic ‘gender critical’ movement endangers the lives of a vulnerable minority. Shame on you.'

So much left unsaid.
So many areas in which women's lives are impacted negatively not even touched on.
So very careful, and shallow.
It didn't inform about the different sides sufficiently for it to all make sense to anyone who doesn't already know.
And yet Stephen Whittle (and his partner, apparently) called this, 'a vile and horrible little film'. You wonder what they want!
I was struck, again, by the numbers: 0.5% people affected. (May have shouted 51% at the screen at that point.)

I see I cross posted with quite a few.