Gender Wars - Channel 4 - 10pm tonight

[chouxchoux]

With the brilliant Kathleen Stock.

Anyone planning to watch?

(Apologies if there’s an existing thread I’ve missed).

It feels like the JK Rowling podcast all over again. TRAs agree to be interviewed, and then throw a hissy fit once it airs. What went wrong? What were they expecting?

Ahh, I see.

'Ten seconds of #GenderWars and it’s been switched off. If I wanted to hear transphobia like that I’d unblock Terfling'

seems large sections of Twitter have absolutely no idea that their views are not held by many other people, because they have blocked their ears to anything they don't want to hear.

It was also noticeable to me that the use of gender-based pronouns made things tricky at some points too. Eg the narrator calling KJ 'she' jarred with me. And 'cis' wasn't explained at all!

FWIW, if you're a trans activist reading this - that programme was as bland, milque toast and mild as anyone could reasonably have made it.

Can you really not handle even the most careful, polite, reasonable dissent? Really and truly?

I can see though that people would be very unhappy with the amount of focus on doc stock. And I think that as people digest the doco, they will think, what the fuck? Why was she treated this way?

Maybe it will start people listening to other things.

Maybe the very vocal extreme activists will hate that the feminists sounded so reasonable! I reckon they will all be seething and saying ‘lies, it is all lies’!

What I got from it:
The women wanted to be men because they didn’t want to be women.
The men wanted to be women.
The Cambridge hijack speaker wanted to be the Cambridge hijack speaker.

It was interesting looking at mostly biological women as transmen are less threatening. I think Prof Whittle was the only one who came over as aggressive.

What is ‘terfling’, please?

Haha!! They can't possibly have watched it 😁.

" The women wanted to be men because they didn’t want to be women. "

This sadly says a lot about how females are treated in 2023.

I think it's brilliant that they've all gone off alarming.

I hope they get quoted verbatim. And then people watch the actual documentary.

Oh but the choir at the end though...'We are trans and cis together...' and the camera panning over them...utterly Pythonesque brilliance! 😂

What is ‘terfling’, please?

Is it like Efteling but for women? And with Heineken?

I don't understand the bit about how young people are now more fluid and breaking away from strict boundaries. It seems the opposite to me.

The Pride flag was a rainbow because it basically said, it doesn't matter what you look like, what nationality you are, we are all in this together.

Then the trans movement updated it to add pink for girls, blue for boys, brown for brown people and black for black people ie putting everyone back into categories.

Now they think that hairstyles and clothes indicate to others what gender they want to be referred to. No it doesn't. Because most people don't think that person is wearing a skirt so they must be female, they think that's a man in a skirt.

They've gone backwards, not forwards.

I presume some kind of blocker app.

Trending at no.1 on twitter.

“I don't understand the bit about how young people are now more fluid and breaking away from strict boundaries. It seems the opposite to me.”

It is.

How about they acknowledge their sex and … shock horror… just get on with living life without falling into stereotypes. It is just like when late teenagers and early 20 somethings all ‘rebel’ by dressing the same! Because they are rejecting the normative, by all doing the same thing.

unfortunately, the medicalisation is so very different to just rebellious look, and some tats and piercings.

Thanks. So not a new hang out for terfs.

Aw. It could be! A new language, maybe?

I don't understand the bit about how young people are now more fluid and breaking away from strict boundaries. It seems the opposite to me.

personally, I think they keep contradicting each other. NBs wanting to not look completely masculine or completely feminine is a sartorial choice. It's called personality. They've turned it into an 'identity. I don't see the difference except it's more special.

But transwomen claim that because they feel a certain way, or act a certain way, or want to look a certain way, they must be women. You're right. That's cementing the gender boxes, not busting them open.

The main thing that comes across to me is how they're all so tediously self-obsessed. It is truly remarkable.

We could make it thus! Maybe it is a huge group hangout in twitter. Where they keep all our accounts listed so we can find each other so much easier!!!

The other thing that gets me, do those transmen who, I'm afraid to say, just come across as young lesbian women with quite a few issues, to me, do they understand AGP when they see it??

surely, they must encounter men with AGP. Do they genuinely see themselves the same? Two sides of the same coin?

Damn, another firm for my boycott list.

Tuesday ends in Y.

I've not seen it yet. But Whittle was complaining that no-one bothered about people protesting 'him', comparing that to how Doc Stock was treated. Said 'he' couldn't resign because there was no other job lined up. Does anyone know if this was true?

Also, annoyed that Brianna Grey wasn't mentioned. As that's an open case, which has yet to be tried, I understand why that was left out.

@IcakethereforeIam yes, indeed. A BBC article from the past few days makes clear that the defendants cannot be named, and there are pre-trial issues that cannot be reported upon. In light of that, mentioning it in the documentary seems unwise.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65722453

In addition, I don't think it's clear or in the public domain yet if Brianna's death was related to her being trans. A statement either way in the documentary could pose issues for the trial.

I think it's a shame Prof Whittle is so upset. I thought he came over well and his contributions were useful. There does, though, seem to be a tone of, "Me! Me! It should all have been about me!!" in his comments, which does seem typical in trans-people.