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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Antipodean fruit growers 3 - Is the Kiwi a Dodo or a Phoenix?

833 replies

Bosky · 26/05/2023 03:34

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4632616-antipodean-fruit-growers-2-canary-in-the-internet-coal-mine

Front row seat on the seemingly eternal battle between Jersh (aka Suzi Quatro's Fat Nan) and his Merry Band of Farmers against the Transpowered Forces of Internet Censorship.

1st Thread - Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

OP posts:
Thread gallery
60
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/04/2025 16:01

Given the letter that Josh's lawyer has sent OFCOM I can't help wondering if the person at OFCOM who sent the letter re KiwiFarms was deliberately poking the bear to show how unworkable the legislation is.

Pixiedust1234 · 05/04/2025 16:32

Christinapple · 05/04/2025 15:46

https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/

"in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."

CloudFlare and numerous ISPs (this includes in Britain, and it isn't because of the Online Harms Safety Bill) have blocked kiwifarms due to hate, stalking, threats of violence, telling people to kill themselves etc.

Indians, black people and Muslims seem to be targeted heavily as well as gay and trans people.

Cloudflare unblocked immediately it received a solicitors letter from KW as cloudflare had blocked it illegally based on lies.

Fruityful · 05/04/2025 17:54

Christinapple · 05/04/2025 15:46

https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/

"in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."

CloudFlare and numerous ISPs (this includes in Britain, and it isn't because of the Online Harms Safety Bill) have blocked kiwifarms due to hate, stalking, threats of violence, telling people to kill themselves etc.

Indians, black people and Muslims seem to be targeted heavily as well as gay and trans people.

And you continue to argue about what a site you say you've never been on is like to people who have been there. One would think that alone might make you question it. Cloudflare blocked it on word of mouth from one Clara Sorenti, aka Keffels - a transwoman who has it in for KiwiFarms. The Farms documented his teaching kids how to make oestrogen at home and other unwholesome activity.

Rather than passing on this threat to law enforcement to handle, Cloudflare took it upon themselves to try and block the site (which was a paying customer of theirs) without explaining to anyone what this supposed threat was. When finally pushed to it, it turned out that the "imminent threat to human life" incident went as follows: A comment about planting a bomb and sending armed men was posted, by a long dead user account that suddenly reactivated, it was deleted in minutes but somehow during this tiny span Keffels was coincidentally there just at the right time to take a screenshot. Makes one think, no?

Well, it would make most people think. Not so sure it could do that for you. And you keep declaring that UK ISPs have blocked it. Well neither of the ones I use do and your appeal to authority of trying to prove its bad by saying ISPs know better than us is flawed anyway. I do think one has or else it's just on some sort of adult filter but that's on them. At the end of the day what you are singularly failing to do is make your case by any direct evidence. You just continue to fish around for other people saying bad things about the Farms because you are unable to present your own opinion.

You want to say there's racism or sexism on there? Go ahead - there is. You want to say that people say bad things about group X you can probably do that inserting anything you want for 'X'. Men, women, black people, white people, chinese people, short people, tall people, fat people, thin people, gay people, straight people and aesexuals. And you can find people saying good things about all the same as well. You can say whatever you like on the Farms so long as you aren't fedposting or it's porn or something illegal. You'll probably get mocked for it but you can.

The question isn't whether or not anybody agrees with what any given poster on the Farms says. And it's a Free Speech site so you can find someone saying almost anything. The question is whether the UK govt. should be stopping us from reading what other people say. You seem to think yes.

(Oh, as an aside, Cloudflare's stock dropped after their actions and investors threatened to sue them over it, iirc.)

teawamutu · 05/04/2025 19:26

Christinapple · 05/04/2025 15:46

https://blog.cloudflare.com/kiwifarms-blocked/

"in this case the imminent and emergency threat to human life which continues to escalate causes us to take this action."

CloudFlare and numerous ISPs (this includes in Britain, and it isn't because of the Online Harms Safety Bill) have blocked kiwifarms due to hate, stalking, threats of violence, telling people to kill themselves etc.

Indians, black people and Muslims seem to be targeted heavily as well as gay and trans people.

A two and a half year old proven lie. And it took you several days to find it.

In most cases I'd say that's weak, but it's actually one of your stronger efforts.

Nevertheless...

Fruityful · 06/04/2025 09:07

It's disturbing how some people so much want to outsource their judgement to private companies. Cloudflare, an ISP - to celebrate big companies choosing what we can and cannot read is bizarre.

And what strange bedfellows it makes all this makes. The reason the Farms has this thread here is precisely because of the censorship. Governments and institutions went all in on the trans movement. Now MNers who wanted to discuss it freely have ended up having to go to a site created to laugh at people in order to do so. Things like Liz Fong Jones' "there was a consent accident" tweet have vanished off all mainstream sites and you only find this content archived on the Farms. That's why the Farms has relevance to women's rights. Any human rights movement of whichever flavour, has always had to deal with misrepresentation and censorship. There's a lot on the Farms I don't agree with, but in opposing censorship and censorship's uniquely modern form of memory-holing inconvenient information, the Farms serves a valuable role.

On his podcast, Null says that the Farms is now getting lumped in with big players like Google as part of this because those big players are also concerned about UK overreach. The Online Safety Bill is even potentially becoming a factor in the USA's tariffs to the UK according to some sites like the Telegraph.
UK Labour government willing to rework Online Safety Act to avoid Trump tariffs – The Free Speech Union

It's a weird situation. I would ordinarily be against another country using its economic power to influence my country's laws. But what do I do when I find those laws oppressive to me as a citizen?

Needmoresleep · 06/04/2025 09:26

From memory, Justine and Mumsnet are also speaking out against the bill. Not for the first time she will find herself alongside Jersh in defending free speech.

The farmers and the mums may be quite different but we need to be able to call out misogyny and strange thought cults.

NicCageisnotNickCave · 06/04/2025 17:05

Christinapple · 02/04/2025 11:59

And that's why it will be big business for VPNs soon, as it avoids all the risks with age verification.

There are risks with VPNs/TOR too, of course. Nothing at all is blocked on there. The UK ISPs already (unrelated to the Online Harm Bill, they already do this) block a lot of illegal porn/abuse and high-risk sites including those infected with malware, terrorism etc. So if the Online Harm Bill was passed "to make the internet safer" and people just start using TOR etc to look at normal consensual adult porn then the Gov has only increased harm for everyone.

"So you are pro pornography then, Chris?"

Nice manipulation attempt, just pointing out the flaws of the Online Harm Bill from a more technical view.

I want to protect minors from being exposed to graphic sexual imagery, don’t you?

Needmoresleep · 11/04/2025 11:20

NicCageisnotNickCave · 06/04/2025 17:05

I want to protect minors from being exposed to graphic sexual imagery, don’t you?

I do as well.

We need to consider how best to do it.

I only lurk on KF once every few months, and am not registered. I am sometimes curious as to whether there is further background to something that is discussed here. (Caroline Farrow, Susie Green and Amy Challenor are examples.) I find most of the site unreadable but still think KF is important and should exist. I worry more about the motives of people who want it shut down.

The site is no longer allowing access from the UK and recommends a VPN. I briefly thought about getting my head round more technology but was insufficiently motivated. (Is there further background to the Fife junior doctor? Something doesn't add up.)

I could ask my adult DC. Even when they were teenagers they would have been able to help. Aged 15 one mentioned that his very computer literate friend was spending time on the dark web - in retrospect possibly the sort of nerd forums that morphed into KF. Allowing me the reassurance that if DS was talking about it he probably wasn't involved. Similarly when he was 11 he told me about older boys showing him adult porn at a holiday sports scheme.

Nasty, nasty content is out there on the Internet. UK ISPs will screen a lot of it. Restrict still further and more people will be motivated to by-pass restrictions. More worrying is that more legislation will give greater scope for people to bully Mumsnet and other legitimate sites into further control of content.

Communication via MN, crowdfunders and elsewhere is what has allowed women to fight back against the gender cult.

During the consultation on the Gender Reform Act I found Virgin Media were blocking access to the Fair Play for Women website. I spent the best part of a day escalating my complaint. It was undemocratic to block guidance from a legitimate group around a government consultation. It was unblocked in the end, but damage will have been done. There are bad actors out there. Which is why KFs archiving is so important. And why we need to consider whether increased censorship is the way to protect young people. I am pretty sure it is not.

Fruityful · 11/04/2025 12:22

@Needmoresleep
"I could ask my adult DC. Even when they were teenagers they would have been able to help."

Can I just say that makes me laugh? (In the nicest way). "Mum wants me to help her get on the dark web again." A modern update on when we all used to help our own parents program the video recorder.

Though the implications of parents now being the ones trying to evade Internet filters is kind of worrying. FWIW, and I'm sure you could figure this out, if you do want to keep reading the site without any major hassle, the easiest way is to use the Brave browser on a laptop/desktop which has Tor built in. You just click on the TOR version of the site linked to in the block notice and then click on the TOR mode icon in Brave (it's a little set of concentric rings). Or you could install the TOR browser itself which will do it automatically. Failing that any old VPN service like Mullvad, Nord or ExpressVPN will do it - but they cost a few quid and they'll also route your entire connection to another country. Easy to install and use, though.

"During the consultation on the Gender Reform Act I found Virgin Media were blocking access to the Fair Play for Women website. I spent the best part of a day escalating my complaint. It was undemocratic to block guidance from a legitimate group around a government consultation. It was unblocked in the end, but damage will have been done."

Still a victory and they might not take the word of whoever told them it should be blocked as gospel next time. Good for you.

DrLouiseJMoody · 11/04/2025 14:03

Personally, and as someone who has been stalked and harassed by an assortment of, frankly, degenerates, criminals, and paedophiles under the TRA banner, I find KF informative. Of course abusers don't want documentation of their behaviour on-line but they will just have to tolerate it. You don't get to intimidate people silently and hope that no-one posts proof of your behaviour. So, yes, I'm happily vpn-ing away and won't apologise for using an information resource.

3beesinmybonnet · 18/04/2025 18:04

I'm not registered with KF and don't use a VPN, but the sites back up for me

CyclingSam · 18/04/2025 18:22

Me too.
There's a lot of thoughtful content. Here's a post from the Erin Reed thread:

One of the democratizing aspects of the modern internet that goes underexamined is how it has revealed how many elites are not just stupid but delusionally so. I don't mean elites like major celebrities or politicians, I mean the once "faceless" elites like journalists and "experts" like Tony/Alex who are willing to share their stupidity constantly outside their work while their "work" remains within a sphere that removes the context those public displays provide. How many journalists like Ben Collins write "normal" stories and then you have their unhinged social media practices that add so much context that you would have passed over in their work but now you know to read with a critical eye because of their name? You see an article that cites Tony or Alex you instantly suspect that story and that journalist because of what you know about them. How many do you see crying about Elon or JESSE SINGAL or whatever stupid thing of the day while literally shaking about the fascism before your mind automatically starts constructing a new critical frame for people who would have once been able to speak authoritatively in ways that never would be challenged. Repeat endlessly across everywhere.

This is one reason they hate free speech and free press so much and are desperate to frame criticism and mockery as "harassment" and "threats", they don't want to impose self-control on themselves so it becomes necessary to force everyone else to obey the status and authority they think they deserve naturally. There's not supposed to be a debate, there's not supposed to be resistance, the betters of society are supposed to lead the way with complete control. When the fiction of that control is pierced, like with COVID or Trump or tons of other things, everything has to collapse into despair, they can never feel "safe" again. Tons of them have written things like how they can never "trust" society again after these events because a handful of people resisted however minor.

The irony is that one of the most important things in successfully fighting mental illness, especially something like anxiety, is focusing yourself to recognize what is and is not in your control. It's really shocking that so many self-diagnosed (and diagnosis shopping) mentally ill people who are definitely not narcissists and/or borderline seem to ignore this.

CapabilityBrownsHaHa · 18/04/2025 18:34

Ooo, me too! I have to say that using the tor browser for android was really easy, though, so if anything goes tits up again, it's a good backup.

nothingcomestonothing · 18/04/2025 19:07

Ha I found this out today and thought I'd missed a memo!

Just as well cos I was trying to read the A&N thread on the FWS supreme court judgement and realised I don't know my password. I guess I am the thing Jersh says people who don't use a password generator are Blush

Pixiedust1234 · 18/04/2025 19:31

3beesinmybonnet · 18/04/2025 18:04

I'm not registered with KF and don't use a VPN, but the sites back up for me

Not for me. But I do have virgin media 🤔

Edit - nvm, forgot the .sp

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/04/2025 19:39

What prompted this change? Will have a look on there later.

CapabilityBrownsHaHa · 18/04/2025 20:02

Weirdly, I couldn't find anything about it in the LLP section, either.

nothingcomestonothing · 18/04/2025 20:21

I saw bits about a SHL working pro bono who had the ear of US high ups, but haven't kept up with happenings over there lately so don't know if more than that has been divulged.

Kallikrates · 18/04/2025 20:49

The Rowling Derangement Syndrome thread has been busy since Wednesday's ruling... oh boy... deranged is an understatement.

Fruityful · 18/04/2025 23:08

This is Josh's Mad At The Internet stream on Rumble rather than KiwiFarms exactly, but he talks about the recent court verdict on it. What amused me is that for those who don't know, he has a "news hamster" in the corner for his news section. And for this he swapped it out to a femme-hamster specially. I took a picture of it to share... (hopefully that shows up shortly. Not showing for me currently. Maybe it requires review?).

Fruityful · 18/04/2025 23:13

This is Josh's Mad At The Internet stream on Rumble rather than KiwiFarms exactly, but he talks about the recent court verdict on it. What amused me is that for those who don't know, he has a "news hamster" in the corner for his news section. And for this he swapped it out to a femme-hamster specially. I took a picture of it to share...

Antipodean fruit growers 3 - Is the Kiwi a Dodo or a Phoenix?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/04/2025 00:19

Haha that’s awesome 😂

Bosky · 19/04/2025 04:46

Femme Hamster also appears on the YouTube upload of MATI #410, April 18th 😂

s

OP posts:
Kallikrates · 22/04/2025 16:49

It's blocked again!

nothingcomestonothing · 22/04/2025 18:06

Back to tor we go