Female cyclists in podium no-show after being beaten by male cyclist

[EdgeOfACoin]

https://www.outkick.com/cyclists-no-show-post-race-podium-after-biological-male-finishes-1st-in-female-race/

This was in a Colorado - Utah race a couple of days ago. Apologies if there's already a thread. I didn't see one.

Interestingly, this was in the race for cyclists aged 40-49. I wonder if older athletes are less likely to stand for this nonsense. Anyway, good for them. I hope this spreads to younger cyclists and other sports.

And here is the abuse that Taylor received.

Seriously, there are threads and threads about what happens to these women who speak out.

How the fuck do people not see what happens to these women when they speak out??

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552056-female-skateboarder-taylor-silverman-speaks-out-about-transwoman-winning-womans-competitions?reply=117324481

Here is Sharron Davies discussing what happens to these women.

And here is Sharron detailing her loss of income for speaking out. Because sponsorship and opportunities have dried up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11042401/SHARRON-DAVIES-Fighting-transgender-bullies-left-brink-financial-ruin.html

Not really sure I have the energy to post more. Seriously, this is not that hard.

Ah I see we’ve arrived at the “yes but not that sort of evidence” stage

the abuse & threats sports women receive for speaking out is well documented & because more of them don’t do it

(interestingly when sports bodies conduct the research anonymously women are very clear how much they regard TW as cheating), their silence is taken as compliance

rock and hard place springs to mind!

I’m not a competitive athlete.

I’m not in prison.

I’m not entering women’s prizes for writing or music.

I’m not currently in need of a women’s refuge.

Yet I care about women impacted by the push for gender identity taking precedence over sex in all these areas. I care about it because I care about women but I also know that where women are disadvantaged in one sphere that has an impact on women in another sphere.

I am feeling this in my family (I am a mother), in healthcare, in education, in my paid work and my volunteer work. That is where my “lived experience” is. I’m very grateful for all the women and men standing up for reality, safeguarding, women’s rights, freedom of speech in whatever sphere. This is a battle which needs to be fought on all fronts. There are fewer women who are athletes or imprisoned than there are working in or using healthcare and education. I have no intention of abandoning them to their fate just because I am neither an athlete nor a prisoner.

“Lived experience” is frequently overrated and a term commonly used to prevent discussion.

I never hear proponents of gender identity being asked to be quiet due not having “lived experience”, the vast majority are “allies” rather people who believe that they have a soul in conflict with their body.

I brought up this fight on Twitter, how Starmer might approach the worries of the 51%. I was told in no uncertain terms that MNers were cultists, an echo chamber, and Labour must ignore, women across UK will vote Labour and bypass any sectarian interest.

I thought of answering back, but tbh I couldn't be bothered. My hope is these Twitterers were wrong, but I fear I'm wrong in hoping that.

Thanks for all these excellent examples.

I was genuinely interested to see if anyone on the forum had first hand experience and, unless I missed it, there isn't.

I'm not attempting to silence anyone and have no desire or power to do so. I just know what I'm interested in and no apologies if that bothers you.

Can you tell us why? Because from your comments it does seem that you are somehow attempting to discredit people's opinions?

It seems like you are, as some have suggested, attempting to narrow the framing to if it doesn't impact on you personally, then you are to be discredited.

And genuinely, if you want people's experiences on this, go and start a thread and ask. I have seen many posters who have been impacted. From Park run and rowing to rugby and football. They are just not on this thread. Because this is a cycling thread about an event in the states and cycling in the UK have not yet had the male competitors at all levels as the USA has it seems.

Although, I believe British Cycling is about to make some kind of announcement tomorrow morning.

This is a current park run thread. I know there are some posters who have expressed their unhappiness at competing against male people. Also check out threads discussing males who designate themselves as female on Strava etc. There was a few of those over the past 12 months.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4599051-park-run-email-today-living-as-myself

Did you miss this post @MN164 ?

Why does it matter whether anyone here has been personally affected or not?

There are certainly posters who have said that this has affected them or their children or someone else close to them. They may not be on this thread, but why does that matter?

We should all speak out for those who can't speak out for themselves. Do you really think we shouldn't care about anything if it doesn't directly affect us? And even if it doesn't affect us now, it could affect us, or someone close to us, tomorrow.

"If we only spoke out when we were effected by something.. where would be?"

I didn't miss that and I agree with it. That doesn't mean I can't ask for specific responses. I have said I am interested in first hand experiences and have already explained why. I have already said that I am not trying to discredit anyone here or silence them. I think it is useful to have all the science and experiences linked in this thread and have said thanks to those posters, but it isn't what I asked about.

“I think the reason I was looking for input from anyone with actual "lived experience" of being a women who has lost to a transgender woman or a transgender woman who has beaten a women in a race, is to hear if the people actually affected have the same feelings that everyone else projects onto them.”

So, am I reading this sentence correctly? For you to believe that women who have been beaten you need to hear from only women who have lost to a male feel the way posters have described them as feeling, it has to be posted here by a woman with that experience?

Otherwise, people are projecting their own feelings onto the women who are directly impacted?

I’m a woman who lost out to a transgender athlete and it felt shit, as you’d expect. There!

Come on @MN164 . An anonymous talkboard poster would persuade you when reams and reams of actual examples from actual athletes wouldn’t? FFS.

Are you a journalist?

If not maybe start your own thread asking for “lived experience” in sport?

If that's true and that's all you want to share, fair enough. There are, as you say plenty of examples elsewhere.

Puzzled about what you're trying to "persuade" me of as I haven't set forth an opinion on anything, other than agreeing with certain posts. 🤔

ChateauMargaux · Today 15:39

If we only spoke out when we were effected by something.. where would be?

That is exactly what has formed my attitude and opinions on men pushing women out, be it in sports, medical settings, or whatever.

As RealityFan said earlier, no man will push me off a podium dishonestly.

It doesn't take much effort to put yourself in someone else's shoes and think, "Hang on a minute, this is really rubbish."

If I see someone in the street being racially abused, my first thought would not be, "I'm not Bangladeshi, it doesn't affect me," and walk on without even calling the Police.

You don't have to be a super empath to seea situation and conclude that it's wrong.

And this is a case which is very wrong Indeed.

My daughter plays sport and is very good at it but when the girls didn't get a fair share of training time, were being excluded from the playground games and had to play in boys kit that didn't fit.. I spoke up for her. When the girls race was make a unisex race because one boy didn't have a partner, I spoke up for her. When her mixed hockey team were refusing to pass to her despite her being universally acknowledged as one of the best players, I spoke up for her. When she was not put in the highest set despite getting the top grades, I spoke up for her. When I see sex based bias in the classrooms that perpetuate the disparity in participation in higher level study of Maths, Physics and Computer Science, I speak up... not just for my daughter but for everyone.

My daughter may never be an elite athlete but she knew from a very young age that she wanted to play in a girls only team. She wants to climb mountains, with girls, and female guides... I have reached out into the female climbing community to find this for her.. because it is important. The history of female climbers is an awful tale of barriers, misogyny and exclusion... I want her to believe that she belongs in whatever space she wants to be in and if that means I fight for things that I have no experience of... I will do it.

I know what it is like to ride a bike designed for men and come off in agony. To train as hard as my husband only to be 10% slower. To find it harder to be out on a trail because men will stop to pee anywhere and if I do, I feel exposed and at risk. To have to make accomodations for periods when male competitors do not..

Women deserve women only spaces because every moment of my lived experiences say they do.. I should not have to justify my opions because you want to undermine, belitte and dismiss them, like millions before you..

www.ted.com/talks/tracee_ellis_ross_a_woman_s_fury_holds_lifetimes_of_wisdom

@MN164 are you interested in questioning someone with direct experience of this, live, as it were? Rather than reading a written description of their experiences as per many of the links provided? Is it the interactive element that you're interested in?

you asked for the truth on an anonymous forum

you get someone saying that they have experience and then you say ‘if thats true’

thats fucking rude if nothing else

“I think the reason I was looking for input from anyone with actual "lived experience" of being a women who has lost to a transgender woman or a transgender woman who has beaten a women in a race, is to hear if the people actually affected have the same feelings that everyone else projects onto them.”

So, am I reading this sentence correctly? For you to believe that women who have been beaten you need to hear from only women who have lost to a male feel the way posters have described them as feeling, it has to be posted here by a woman with that experience?

Otherwise, people are projecting their own feelings onto the women who are directly impacted?

apologies for that garbled mess. I really want to understand the reasoning here though.

For you to believe that women who have been beaten you need to hear from only women who have lost to a male feel the way posters have described them as feeling, it has to be posted here by a woman with that experience?

should be

For you to believe that women who have been beaten ‘feel the way posters have indicated’, you need to hear from only women who have lost to a male describe how they feel and it has to be posted here by the woman experiencing this?

Have I interpreted your statement correctly?

You believe that we have been, or want clarification whether we have been, projecting our own feelings onto women and girls playing sports?

Maybe I should round up my friends who cycle and jog and play football and get them to post here. When I discuss it with them they are horrified. One friend is in her 70s and still competes and is horrified to think sports federations had even started to allow this. Her women’s running club (teens to masters) think it was ridiculous.

It is funny as I gave an example of second hand experience of a male hockey player playing in the girls team, leading to girls leaving disillusioned but as I don't play hockey, still not good enough?

Moving goalposts again

If it's not posted here by the person it happened to, it didn't happen.

If it is posted here by the person it happened to, they might be making it up.

I think that's how it works for @MN164.

Is this some kind of double humiliation? Not good enough for the policy to be wrong in principle, so that objecting to the principle isn't enough ?

Now one has to have direct lived experience of having lost out, suffered harm etc?

Let me guess what happens then...one will have to justify that loss or harm is greater than the "loss or harm" of the "excluded" trans athlete if female sex based rights were to trump gender.

I knew men hated women, and some women supported this, but I never knew it ran quite so deep.

Here is a panel video just released. It includes Ivy/McKinnon discussing how everyone was focused on the world record they broke, while missing the point they had been beaten in a different event.

like that makes a difference.

The narrative that these males have to ‘beat everyone all the time’ to show they have advantage shows the facile and simplistic view of what sport is and what advantage means.

As Ross Tucker says. If he straps an electric motor and does the Tour de France, just because he doesn’t win, does that mean he didn’t have unfair advantage?

Only someone with limited capacity for understanding advantage and how sports categories work would think entering the Tour de France with an electric bike and not winning shows no advantage. Of course, using that for female category events, what it shows is that a male with less comparable performance earns places to start with that they would never have earned against males in a male race. A mediocre male becomes a top tier competitor against female athletes

here is the link

God, put this shower in a studio with Jon Pike, Emma Hilton, Cathy Devine, Ross Tucker, Mara, Sharon, Martina, and they wouldn't last 30 seconds.

Of course their echo chamber can last hours.