Brighton NHS trust recommends drug-induced male breastfeeding in their maternity protocols

[zibzibara]

https://www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/MP005-Perinatal-Care-for-Trans-and-Non-Binary-People.pdf

This is part of their maternity protocols for perinatal care. In the Infant feeding section:

"5.5.7 Non-gestational parents may wish to participate in feeding their
infants using their own bodies. Cis women who have previously breastfed may have the most success in relactating. Trans women and cis women who have not been pregnant may also be able to induce lactation to some extent. Methods for inducing lactation include using galactagoues and physical stimulation. Alternatively, some families choose to use supplemental nursing systems with expressed milk or formula."

They cite this website in the reference list: http://www.milkjunkies.net/2013/05/trans-women-and-breastfeeding-personal.html

Notably they do not cite any source which has tested the composition of any such male secretions for safety and nutritional value.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

So women have everything they put into their bodies throughout pregnancy and breast feeding scrutinised and we are lucky if we get given anything more than a paracetamol to deal with pain. Yet this is ok? Wtf

[dimorphism]

Jesus wept. When I think of all the hassle I got for taking an antibiotic THAT IS SOMETIMES GIVEN TO NEWBORNS and told to stop breastfeeding, supplement, pump and dump and then reintroduce breastfeeding once the course had ended.

Surely this is medical negligence on a grand scale suggesting men breastfeed without any knowledge of the drugs in whatever they produce? There needs to be a legal challenge surely? Who the hell is going to step in and protect babies from this abuse?

[YouJustDoYou]

Jesus fucking CHRIST, Brighton!!! They're vile there in the NHS, using babies to satisfy male kinks, that's honestly horrific.

[WhiteBloatus]

Absolutely Disgusting. Where are the babies needs in all this? Who benefits from this and why? How an NHS service can be promoting this as an option is honestly horrifying

[YouJustDoYou]

On what plane of existence is that for the baby's benefit?!!

[zibzibara]

It's horrifying, and there may be other NHS trusts recommending this too, there are loads of hits on Google for site:nhs.uk breastfeed "trans women" and site:nhs.uk breastfeeding "trans women", though possibly they could be about something else that just happened to match these keywords, or are just talking about it not recommending in a protocol.

[00100001]

😫

[Helleofabore]

This article from last year seems pertinent and I will be back with other links I just posted on the other thread too.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10892531/NHS-accused-putting-babies-harm-advice-trans-women-wanting-breastfeed.html

[turbonerd]

What.
No no no no no.

The baby may spend all their energy trying to Get the nutrients and hydration they need.

Has Brighton ever heard of jaundice?

[FourTeaFallOut]

Obviously there are a lot of questions about how we got to this point and the weirdness of it all but, on just a biological levelt is there a qualitative difference in the qualities of the milk produced? Does that milk adapt to the baby's needs like that of its mother's - in response to illness for example or, say, on a warm day when the milk produced is more watery?

[turbonerd]

But the «milk» produced by a TW is like fucking Toxic Waste (not my fault the acronyms are the same here!).

Like others have pointed out: the flak a woman gets for taking paracetamol or a thimbleful of cider whilst breastfeeding out of concern for the baby.
All of a sudden that concern is just violently flung to the wind so that a man can … jesus.

I got the rage just now.

[dimorphism]

@FourTeaFallOut

Obviously there are a lot of questions about how we got to this point and the weirdness of it all but, on just a biological levelt is there a qualitative difference in the qualities of the milk produced? Does that milk adapt to the baby's needs like that of its mother's - in response to illness for example or, say, on a warm day when the milk produced is more watery?

Has the male body evolved over hundreds of millions of years to adapt their milk to a newborn baby? The answer is no. Obviously it's no.

There may have been no studies but it takes a nanosecond to realise there is no way a male body has the multitude of biological systems required because a mother's ability to produce breastmilk has evolved over millions of years.

To think that by taking a few drugs applied on top of a male body you can produce anything resembling mother's milk is arrogance and biological ignorance on a staggering scale

[dimorphism]

Who the hell produces this 'advice' and how are they still in a job? There are mums looking for work who could do a hell of a lot better than this and apply some fucking common sense.

[Helleofabore]

The article has been deleted by Daily Mail. But please plug the link into archive (dot) is or ph and it should work. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10859287/Transgender-paramedic-breastfed-newborn-baby-know-like-mum.html

This is a medically trained male paramedic who did this by the way.

There have been numerous threads about this in the past and never once have we been offerred any benefit for the infant in all this. Not once.

This is the article that has caused two Australian women to receive letters stating they have broken the law.

https://reduxx.info/two-australian-women-told-they-broke-the-law-after-criticizing-trans-identified-male-breastfeeding-child/

Quite a few issues in that orginal article about Buckley.

Here is a few statements:

''To know I could breastfeed my own child and have that experience, I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted to know what it was like to be a mum and breastfeed."

and

'I will never know what's it like to menstruate or carry a baby or give birth,' Ms Buckley said.

'But to be told I could have the opportunity to breastfeed, it was something that was nice to be able to experience as a trans woman.'

and 

'The first time it came out I just started leaking,' Ms Buckley said. 'Then I pumped and it was a weird feeling having a suction cap suck out milk, but it was exciting.

'I thought, "Oh my God, I am actually producing human milk".'

and

'Apart from the milk he was getting from me he was essentially starving,' Ms Buckley said of the couple's hungry son

'I genuinely believe had I not brought my breast milk into the hospital he could have become very sick with liver and kidney issues from lack of nutrition.'

and

'It was sad. It was frustrating, but as brief as it was, I did get to experience it. I would have preferred to do it a lot longer. But Auden's wellbeing was paramount.'


I am really looking forward to posters telling us just what about this interview is not pointing out that this all about the male. What part of these statements above are about the child. 

Even when HCP's pointed out that the baby was starving, it was all about that adult male. 

Why was the hospital letting an infant ‘starve’? Or did this couple refuse formula and manufacture the need for this male to then ‘rescue’ the newborn by feeding their son? It should be noted the medical team for the baby thought this was not an advisable option. This male did it anyway!

And those posters who support this male feeding secretions to that infant can also then point out just how that male feeding the newborn whatever the substance was they were producing was, how are they providing the newborn nutrition if the composition is unknown?

I doubt we will get any answers though. 

That this endrocrinologist has spoken at AusPATH about this, and has 'assisted' FIVE other males to do this, I suspect each state in Australia will have some males to have done this already and quite a few more will be aiming for it.

The usual 'only one / two/ a few' rhetoric would be misinformed. 

see below:

Dr Naomi Achong, a former president of Australian Professional Association for Trans Health (AusPATH), is the Brisbane endocrinologist who recommended Ms Buckley breastfeed Auden.

It is understood she has helped five other transgender women breastfeed.


Dr Achong spoke on the topic of 'lactation induction in transfemales' at a AusPATH conference last weekend and her talk was one of the most booked events.

[ColdMeg]

This is end game bat-shittery.

I'm sorry, but it just is. This is the kind of insanity an institution comes out with just before it disintegrates.

[dimorphism]

Are the health professionals just going to indulge this until a baby DIES? What the hell?

[Musomama1]

This is just utterly wrong. A man should not be 'breastfeeding' their baby. It's hardly feeding anyway though is it? Men cannot produce the nourishing milk that women do or anywhere near the amount needed.

The only reason here would be for bonding between parent and child. But there are other ways to bond with your baby. I didn't breastfeed.

This is just plain using baby as a prop for a fantasy. Off the weird scale here that it's being endorsed by the NHS.

[FourTeaFallOut]

Jesus. I just fucking asked. I'm not a bad actor feigning naivety.

Yes, that would seem the obvious answer to me too. It's just bamboozling when this is driven by the nhs - and the lack of concern in this regard.

[Helleofabore]

This article is relevant too

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/?utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=2116208:Skimlinks.com&utm_content=10&ranMID=47192&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-uOWyW0a0EHFcOxL5MmCf5Q&utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=2116208:Skimlinks.com&utm_content=10&ranMID=47192&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-eFdm05QNJngWSRNMPW32yA#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

“However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown.”

“Deutsch herself is a transgender woman with a six-month-old baby who is currently being breastfed by Deutsch’s wife, who was the gestational mother. “I am very sad not to be able to breastfeed her and at the same time I did not consider doing this for the above reasons,” she says.”

This was February 2018. I have not seen anything to prove that any in-depth studies have been released since to counter this expert's opinion. And there has been plenty of other threads since this that where these studies would have been posted by activist posters.

So, there we have it. A transitioned male, Associate Professor, Family Community Medicine, is telling the world that this is not advisable until further research. 

This comes from that link too:

“After three months of treatment, this increased to 227 grams of breast milk per day. Once the baby was born, she was able to exclusively breastfeed the infant for six weeks – during which time a paediatrician confirmed the baby was growing and developing normally and healthily.”

“Although significant, this is below the average of around 500 grams that a baby consumes by the time the it is 5 days old. After six weeks, the woman supplemented her breastfeeding with formula.”

Just for clarity, the baby was fed exclusively for six weeks from the secretions from the male

[ILoveToSquanderPromise]

To think that by taking a few drugs applied on top of a male body you can produce anything resembling mother's milk is arrogance and biological ignorance on a staggering scale

Oh come on- you know men can do everything better than women! Even breastfeeding! Their stunning and brave milk will be perfect <twirls> and the baby won't tire itself out suckling for it.

I can't work out what I'm most annoyed by - the misogyny or the arrogance. Either way it's pipped by concern for the poor baby. With a nod to poor tonsillitis ridden me who was given a very nasty lecture by the GP over taking ibuprofen whilst breastfeeding a nine month old twice a day.

[Helleofabore]

https://www.them.us/story/trans-women-breastfeed

This is an illuminating read and shows insight into the motivations for these male people who seek to do this.

[turbonerd]

This one person says they want to donate their «milk». At 52 years old.

ok.

[Helleofabore]

@Whatwouldscullydo

So women have everything they put into their bodies throughout pregnancy and breast feeding scrutinised and we are lucky if we get given anything more than a paracetamol to deal with pain. Yet this is ok? Wtf

Yes, apparently when male people do it, it magically is wonderful.

Has the level of testosterone been checked in the secretions of male people? What about the interaction with the drugs used to suppress testosterone? What about male levels of testosterone coming through into the milk fed to infant girls?

I cannot find any of this researched? If anyone has links, I would appreciate reading them.

[AlisonDonut]

@FourTeaFallOut

Jesus. I just fucking asked. I'm not a bad actor feigning naivety.

Yes, that would seem the obvious answer to me too. It's just bamboozling when this is driven by the nhs - and the lack of concern in this regard.

Just to help, it is a kink. The men that do this get turned on by it. I know because they are quite open about it.

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

I’m reminded of the Roman Emperor Tiberius, of whom it was alleged that he encouraged babies to suckle him ( but not from his breasts).

This was not seen as admirable by the rest of the Romans, though. So I guess they are ahead of us in the morality stakes