Now Adidas are at it!

[eleanorwish]

Woman's swimsuit modelled by a man.

twitter.com/sophielouisecc/status/1658827159803240452?s=61&t=_FVhOkJfaHrQrqGFLoyivg

What's the point? So we can see there's enough room for our meat and 2 veg?

THIS WITH BELLS ON.

There are 2 sides to the debate.

You will find most gay people are accepting of transpeople and the "gender criticals" who are so hateful of transpeople are in the minority. Any pride event is very accepting of transpeople and any haters will quickly be shown the way out, for example a couple of years ago a man thought it would be a good idea to turn up to a Manchester pride event wearing LGB-Alliance (an anti-trans group) clothing. He was escorted out by community officers while the entire crowd chanted "trans lives matter".

You are perfectly entitled to have your views provided you express them legally, but the era we live in now is supportive of transpeople (and becoming more supportive as time goes on, most gender criticals are the older generations). We won't stand for eg LGB-Alliance supporters at any gay bar or event.

Escorted or assaulted?

There are 2 sides to the debate.

Oh! So we are allowed to debate now?!

Escorted, I saw the video.

Apparently (unseen in the video) his LGB-Alliance hat was pinched, but other than that he was untouched and the crowd of gay people and allies showed their support for transpeople as the hater was led out.

@MerlinsLostMarbles how are 'gender criticals' hateful of transpeople? Can you post examples?

We won't stand for eg LGB-Alliance supporters at any gay bar or event.

how are you proposing to enforce that?

You will find most gay people are accepting of transpeople

Evidence?

Usually this has only asked the ones who are already known to be compliant.

and the "gender criticals" who are so hateful of transpeople are in the minority.

'Hateful' being the homosexual women who won't 'learn to cope' with being free sex workers for straight men who identify as women and have no sense of boundaries, capacity to see females as equally human or as people with a right to sexual orientation of their own, or to enjoy sex as opposed to providing a service to men, and want to continue being allowed to be openly homosexual alongside others with their own choices and freedoms

Let homosexual women be openly homosexual and say, that person's lovely but they're male and I'm not attracted to male people regardless of how the male person identifies and the problem is over.

Let women have female only spaces alongside mixed sex ones and respect that female people have an equal right to inclusion which requires male people understanding and giving them spaces alongside the ones that they themselves need and the problem is over.

Answers that work for everyone. It's not difficult. Calling that 'hate' is a bit more than a stretch, it's getting into the realms of very silly.

When you realise that this translates as 'we won't stand for out homosexuals at any gay bar' you're just left with 😂

oh and forgot this bit:

You will find most gay people are accepting of transpeople

Yes, obviously, very few people have a problem with trans people being trans, friends, colleagues, you name it. I certainly don't.

But what you are in fact trying to conflate under that is a claim that goes: 'you will find most homosexual people are willing at least in conversation to say they will have straight sex'.

And trying to push that - which is obviously wholly unacceptable - under a fig leaf of 'is unaccepting of trans people in general'.

Have trans friends thanks. No problem at all with trans people. Won't be having sex with any male human because homosexual. This is the root of the problem: be honest. It's the insistence on seeing and recognising sex that is blowing the circuit.

but the era we live in now is supportive of transpeople (and becoming more supportive as time goes on)

That there ⬆️ must be quite a bubble to live in.

And the use of "supportive". Not just accepting but supportive.
Yeah, we know that game.

Though I can see why someone post-op would need suport - it's a lot of trauma and horror to endure for the rest of the life.

Not agreeing with someone isn’t hate.

As usual downplaying or over egging what suits you.

All so men don’t have to hear “no thank you.”

Accepting and supporting does not include validating a male person's identity with your body.

huh?

If I saw someone at a gay bar wearing LGB-Alliance or Kelly-Jay keen shirts or attire, I'd be wondering what the hell they were doing there.

For an analogy, Nazis generally don't attend venues for black people do they? Unless of course it's to cause trouble.

So people wanting the freedom to be homosexual and say no to straight sex are Nazis now.

Ok.

Do you know what the L, G and B stand for? You know it makes a lot more sense for those people to be in a gay bar than a trans person, right?

@MerlinsLostMarbles

Are you ok? Im concerned you may need to see a doctor. You may not agree with the milo views and expectations you have received on this board but to state you would wonder what a LBG alliance or let woman speak T-shirt person might be doing in a gay bar worries me. You seem to struggle to retain information?

I think Merlin's just in agreement with nilsmousehammer - "gay bars" aren't for homosexual people any more. They're for TQ+ people, regardless of sexuality.

Maybe but how do you persuade a lesbian to accept your girl d**k if they won't go to the gay bar?

MerlinsLostMarbles · Today 13:44

Do you condone people making false accusations of "grooming" towards anyone who shows support for gay or transpeople?

No, if course not; nobody here has views like that. Making false claims is a terrible thing, something the TEZs would do well to take onboard.

Calling out actual instances of grooming, threats, harassment and violence I am all for, of course.

You appear not to be.

Maybe but how do you persuade a lesbian to accept your girl dk if they won't go to the gay bar?

Well, it's actually probably easier if the gay bar is full of straight people calling themselves TQ+...

Maybe not quite as validating as a real lesbian if you've only managed to pull a woman calling herself "queer" or "non-binary", but it's close enough? (Maybe she'll have more interesting knickers than a real lesbian, who all we know have very boring cotton ones).

Bloke can pretend he and the "queer" women are both lesbians, and she can pretend demonstrate how she's "queer" while still only being into blokes. Cisheteronormativity smashed!

(And come to think of it maybe the LGB Alliance person would be wondering what the hell they were doing there. They wanted a bar, not a roleplay convention.)

Oh ffs, I needed new trainers yesterday and bought Adidas ones even though I preferred the bloody Nike ones!

@NecessaryScene

Brilliant answer!

Yes. His hat was taken from his head.

Again, you have dismissed assault.

It is remarkable that you do this so often. It is like you just never understand that readers can see you do it and remember that you do it.

He was bullied and threatened until he left. How very tolerant was that crowd! How bizarre to try again for the x th number of times to twist the crowd to be anything other than what they were. They were a huge crowd who threatened, bullied and finally assaulted a man for wearing apparel that merely expressed his prioritisation of LGB people.

It didn’t have any hateful messages. just prioritised people from one group.

Thank you for consistently getting the facts wrong and for showing people just how credible your comments really are.

Until I had my eyes opened to autistic girls believing that they could be a boy trapped in the wrong body (when actually, it's more likely to be distress about puberty and not coping with their changing bodies) and making irreversible changes to their bodies, the unfairness in women's sports, lesbians being derided if they don't accept girldick and the general safeguarding that is achieved by sex segregation where it is needed, I always looked forward to showing my support during Pride Month.

This year I shall be keeping my head down, feeling sad that I am now actively avoiding showing any support for gay, lesbian and bisexual people. Also for trans people who fight for evidence-based care for gender dysphoria, such as Aaron Tyrrell and the Gender Dysphoria Alliance

My work is very active in LGBT so I'm expecting quite a lot of rainbow activity and promotion, both in work events and on LinkedIn. I can only offer my silent thoughts that I still feel just as supportive of everyone who I did before. However, I won't be joining in as there is no nuanced way of doing so.

To support with rainbows is to support the whole lot, from kids watching drag queens in fetish clothes, autogynophiles having access to women's changing rooms and toilets to get a thrill, trans women taking women's medals, confused children taking hormones. No.

I won't be actively boycotting anything, nor hoping anyone else does. I genuinely think it's great to have a Pride collection of clothes that challenges sexist stereotypes, like Adidas has done. But as we ramp up in to Pride Month I'll just be silently wishing that I could join in and show support on my own terms and feeling frustrated and annoyed that I can't. By default, not choice.