Now Adidas are at it!

[eleanorwish]

Woman's swimsuit modelled by a man.

twitter.com/sophielouisecc/status/1658827159803240452?s=61&t=_FVhOkJfaHrQrqGFLoyivg

What's the point? So we can see there's enough room for our meat and 2 veg?

Speechless when I saw this.

If you look under 'girls pyjamas' or 'boys pyjamas' on the John Lewis website you'll find photos of boys and girls wearing pyjamas in both sections. They tend to only use one model per design but sign up to 'let clothes be clothes' so you see both. I suspect this is a similar situation, it's a unisex swimsuit

The major difference here is that children’s pyjamas are designed to be unisex - they are not cut differently. This is not a unisex swimsuit as it’s obviously cut for a woman - it’s not designed to hold a penis and testicles. If any male was to wear that swimming at a pool things would spill out. A legline swimsuit is unisex - this is not.

That Ernest Hemingway swimsuit should make a come back.

Im sure there’s lots of blokes don’t like just wearing trunks or shorts.

I think that is another man. Very few women at that weight, no disrespect meant, do not have at least some breasts. In Adidas defence that is part of its Pride collection and is not in the Women's swimwear section. Other bathing suits are clearly labelled women.

There is a line between calling out inappropriate boundary crossing (and the harms that this does) and.... actual transphobia. I appreciate that word is used a lot but I think it could apply here. Also, possible homophobia. Assuming I've understood it correctly, this is a specific collection called Pride, it uses male and female models in its clothing and it is shown in both the women's and men's sections.

I'm reminded of the Bud Light boycott. I don't think the boycott is because of Dylan Mulvaney parodying women (it's very clear cut with Nike sports bras), but instead it's mostly homophobic and/or transphobic men who don't want to be thought of as gay or transgender when they drink their "manly" beer.

This article sums up the differences, where LGB and the T are immediately teamed together as one big kind of "bad". There is no balance with mention of sports bras, promoting Judy Blume's film about female puberty, promoting Kitchen Aid products during a women's month campaign... It's just "gay and trans are bad".

BBC article from this week's business news

Are there any women modelling the men’s swim ware?

This is a good point and one of the biggest issues women face in being listened to.

Actual 'phobias' are a patriarchal disgust at people presenting in ways a person does not like and feels threatened by, and it usually is to do with policing toxic masculinity. This is where the violence and threats comes from.

Women defending their equality and raising the issues for them with their boundaries and identites being so wholly disrespected, are nothing to do with this - they're generally very much behind the idea that anyone of either sex can do whatever they want and should not be restricted by gender. There is no policing. They merely see the boundary crossing and pushing to eradicate their words, for males to dominate their spaces, the linked buttons of fetish and using women in male sexual expression - and they know it is largely coming from toxic masculinity.

It's the toxic behaviour, not the self expression.

But it helps the TQ+ political lobby to escape boundaries that would limit the expression of toxic masculinity by claiming this is all one homogenous group. Hence the 'educate' banging on: 'if you just understood' (you'd gladly give up your rights, equality of access and accept being ill treated and abused).

The ability to listen and to care enough about anyone outside of the lobby to realise this, is what is lacking. I don't know what we do about that, but the lobby's obstinate la la la la with fingers in ears is going to push this to the point of the toxic masculinity factions rising. It is not up to women to suffer quietly so that toxic masculinity in both camps can happily abuse them uninterrupted.

For women concerned about equality -

let there be female only spaces, respected and available alongside accessible mixed sex 'women's spaces' so no one is excluded or harmed

keep words for female only such as lesbian alongside whatever new terms

keep safeguarding strong because safety of people is more important than male egos, and add additional spaces or facilities rather than make existing ones mixed sex

and lets not rush children towards potentially life destroying treatments before they're even old enough to decide to get a tattoo, lets have other quality options that are less invasive and harmful that must be thoroughly exhausted first.

And that's it, pretty much. We can all go home. There's no need for anyone to stop doing anything except overstepping other people's rights and boundaries, and to respect them as they expect respect for themselves.

I haven't looked but they are in a double bind on this one (pun aside. Ahem):

1. show women/transmen in "mens' swimwear" and promote the visibility of double mastectomy scars or topless (boobs still there) modelling
2. don't show women/transmen in "men's swimwear" and risk people saying it's not balanced

Hmmmm well look at the colours

I won't use them again

Ps MNHQ please don't delete... 🤞 I'd like to think everyone can appreciate a pun when it's there for the taking. I'm trying to call out potential transphobia. Deleting my post would be unfortunately ironic I think.

@Flufs I wasn't saying your question was "transphobic", just calling out the general difficulty.

The conflating of patriarchal disgust at the subversion of gender roles with women's legitimate concerns about single sex rights and spaces was the subject of Glosswitch's recent article, though I can't for the life of me find a link to it right now.

I had also had some misgivings about the reaction to Mulvaney's Bud Light campaign, but I think at least part of it was the attitude of the company to their customers - considering them outdated and irrelevant and saying that out loud. It was telling that it had a much bigger impact (when it was seen to effect mainly men) than the Nike campaign, which was detrimental to women.

I know what you mean. It seems a bit rich for the TQ+ political lobby to accuse women struggling to retain equality and access and to not be abused of becoming smeared by the far right/ that TQ+ people may be triggered by the sight of the suffragette colours -

while at the same time requiring women do not start to conflate TQ+ politics with anti-woman activism, homophobia and toxic male abusive behaviours. And to therefore find those colours concerning as indicating those views.

The expectation always that female people must be the bigger and better people and adhere to much higher values not expected of the TQ+ lobby is an ongoing very binary, sex based indicator that no one changes sex.

You can knit one!
knitted swimsuits were all the rage back in the olden days.

These swimsuits would be great if they actually prevented spillage of genitals.

And if the guys changing into them only did so in the gents changing room, if they’re in the leisure centre. Ta.

My issue with Transwomen role models is only when they are used inappropriately eg sports bras, tampons, female puberty or on world women's day. My issue with Dylan is that they parody what it is to be a woman. They emobdy ilthe commercialisation of misogynistic cliches and is not ok. Not knowing the rules for sport because you don't follow it is fine, because you are a woman...

In Australia Binds which is a well known brand has a gender free section.
https://www.bonds.com.au/genderfree.html

Hmmm I’ve had another look and while I thought ‘woman’ I’ve noticed the pronouns are ‘their’.

not sure if the image has uploaded, I’m on the mobile site as I can’t reply from the app but the attachment feature is fiddly

That being said I think the model's figure looks quite 'womanly' from behind, this is a still from the video www.adidas.co.uk/rich-mnisi-swimsuit-plus-size/IA3337.html

''SquidwardBound · 18/05/2023 08:31
Greenfairydust · 18/05/2023 08:26

fajitaaa · Today 08:14

''It's not targeted specifically at women. Ive found the item in the women's section, the mens section and the swimwear section.''

You are actually illustrating my point...

This should not appear when you search the women's section or the men's section...as it is obviously not suitable for these specific categories. The easiest way to solve this is to add a third one.
Why?

why can’t both men and women wear swimsuits?

why does a man wanting to wear a swimsuit have to make them a third category.

It’s so depressing how regressive all this gender stuff is (despite thinking it’s so bloody progressive). Can’t they just be clothes and people can choose whatever clothes they like while still just being male and female humans?''

Again you are missing my point and choosing faux outrage over common sense.

Nowhere did I say that men cannot wear the type of garment that is traditionally seen as being targeted at women.

The bloody point is that many pieces of clothing can be unisex/don't need to be labeled for a specific gender and that you can add that category to a search as well.

If you are man you are going to struggle to fit comfortably into a woman's swimsuit and to find something that matches your body and size. That's just common sense. So it would be easier to start designing products that would give the shape of a swimsuit but is adapted to deferent morphologies.

Anyway I am a queer woman who does not conform to gender stereotype so I am not going to be lectured by you or anyone else on this.

This is an example of a unisex swimming costume - plenty of them out there, if only Adidas had thought to look before they shoehorned a bloke’s tackle into one cut for a women with a proud ‘ta daaa - look at us and our Stunning and Brave gender neutral rainbow swimsuit’

No way on this earth has that model got a 22" chest or waist.

That is still a ladies swimsuit, it’s just that the leg cut is called boyleg. It will still be made to fit a female body.
A swimsuit is designed to fit tightly for performance. The elite suits can take 20 minutes to get into they are so tight.
I cannot see it is possible to design a swimsuit to fit both female and male bodies.
If they want a male fit swimsuit in the style of a female fit one fine, but there’s no way you can have a one size fits all.

Yes, I know. My point is that this style is more unisex than the one that Adidas are promoting as gender neutral - although I should have made that clearer in my previous post. This type of suit was worn widely years ago, it’s cut for men and similar in shape to the boyleg cut women still wear.

@Greenfairydust
you say
Anyway I am a queer woman who does not conform to gender stereotype so I am not going to be lectured by you or anyone else on this.

What does it mean to be queer?
This really puzzles me.
What does it mean in practical life?

Genuine question.
My L sister didn’t know what it meant, and I have no one else to Ask in real life.